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The Radical Muslim will stab you today, the Moderate, Tommorow.

Reader comment on item: What Antidote to Radical Islam?

Submitted by Robert (United States), Apr 16, 2016 at 10:19

Dear Daniel Pipes,

I've just Murat Yetkin's article you've linked us to.
I find his succinct overview of western Muslim (Turkey-based) history excellent.
And I don't think you paid as careful attention to his loaded words
which I know you have the full capacity to understand.
Although he is obviously aligned with the secular tradition of Kemalism
and twice quotes that party's current head
as a Turk he is well-suited to give us a view from a historical Muslim perspective.

My interpretation of what he says
is that it is no use for us to look for Muslim moderates
because Islam is a fundamentally political Religion, unlike Christianity
- "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what's God's."

Is a religiously inclined Muslim wishes to moderate his or her religious views
let that remain a private concern.

The distinction you make, regarding "agnosticism or atheism," is interesting,
but I not persuaded of its relevance. I know, for example, that to a Roman Catholic,
that a Jew, or Muslim, is a million times better than an Atheist.
But Secularism means, for a Kemalist, tolerating Atheists too.

It is ironic, though, that Ataturk's Turkey
has receded into an Erdoğan Islamist Republic.
Perhaps Murat Yetkin advocates a "Dialectical" return to Secularism for Turkey.
I know that you find this Hegelian and Marxist D word distasteful;
but think of English and French history;
after beheading their King, the British had their Glorious Revolution in 1688
with a return of a restoration of their Monarchy;
similar events happened in France after the fall of Napoleon
all the way up to the Fourth Republic and the leadership Charles de Gaulle.

So I give great weight to the Turkish view of Secularism.

However, each Arab country in the Middle East
has obviously no choice but to struggle through
its own "glorious" non-Turkish history.
Consider the Pharaoh of Egypt, The Persian Empire,
the Muslim Arab Empire centered in Bagdad (now Iraq), the Abbasid Caliphate and the Islamic Golden Age;and the Muslim Arab Empire centered in Damascus (now Syria), the Umayyad Caliphate.

As I recall, in one posting you, Daniel Pipes, include Nationalism among the disparaged "-isms" of Ideology. But in my view, the Modern State after the Industrial Revolution
is bound to create a patriotic mythology involving its own past
and the role of its subjects or citizens
in that glorious context.

It turns out that Nationalism hasn't been studied much in a scholarly fashion
until it was well on its way under the banners of fascism;
among the earliest text books is a 1937 imprint,
"Essays on Nationalism" by Carlton J. H. Hayes, Historian, Columbia University,
a book I happen to own. It is a book, however, that leads one to the question
of what is it to be Turkish ? And that brings up the issue of being Kurdish.
And through current events we know
that neither Moderate Islam nor Secularism
will solve that problem for Turkey.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (68) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
The Radical Muslim will stab you today, the Moderate, Tommorow. [493 words]RobertApr 16, 2016 10:19228982
whats the difference [23 words]hr holtSep 21, 2015 17:00225316
Fairy Tale of "moderate" Islam [58 words]BillJul 14, 2015 17:52224213
What of the Jewish claim to Arabia? [221 words]Charles MartelJul 9, 2015 13:08224124
1Invasion, Occupation, Colonization Is The Alternative [106 words]DaveMar 21, 2015 20:56222446
status quo [27 words]Mohammed Waza Khiddif Id'ullahMar 25, 2015 07:20222446
Colonialism, in the Great Scheme of Things [745 words]Michael SApr 4, 2015 10:29222446
The Antidote For Radical Islam [8 words]Clifford IshiiMar 18, 2015 20:13222410
1A religion is only as moderate as its fundamentalist version [250 words]Eric MacDonaldMar 13, 2015 12:26222307
Both are right [51 words]PermReaderMar 11, 2015 11:23222281
Da'ish and the left and members of academia that are beyond help [476 words]dhimmi no moreMar 8, 2015 17:14222206
do not disparage religions [51 words]JIMJFOXMar 8, 2015 14:09222202
2beyond visible. [71 words]Mohammed Waza Khiddif Id'ullahMar 15, 2015 20:31222202
3The editors of the NYT and the misleading titles of articles [361 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
dhimmi no moreMar 8, 2015 11:24222201
1The editors of the NYT have no shame [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 17, 2015 07:52222201
2respectful disagreement with Dr. Pipes [310 words]Charles MartelMar 7, 2015 14:04222172
1There is only ONE Islam [251 words]Michael BurkertMar 10, 2015 10:45222172
2True [125 words]ECAWMar 7, 2015 04:49222164
Islam is protected by Allah(GOD). [37 words]Rahe AmalMar 8, 2015 06:50222164
1pieces of fruit [578 words]Mohammed Waza Khiddif Id'ullahMar 17, 2015 03:03222164
1Eradicate Islam [36 words]Al SegallMar 6, 2015 12:12222146
1What problem? [371 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Pied PiperMar 6, 2015 10:45222143
Antithesis of Identiying a Problem by Saying There is No Problem [267 words]M. ToveyMar 9, 2015 15:35222143
Secularism is the cause of the real problem, not the cure. [32 words]Michael SMar 5, 2015 18:31222134
Islam and morals [49 words]PermReaderMar 11, 2015 11:40222134
an explanation [171 words]Michael SMar 16, 2015 04:30222134
1Five Pillars of Islam [46 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Laina Farhat-HolzmanMar 5, 2015 13:30222130
2a third and more effective antidote [347 words]Michiel HegenerMar 5, 2015 10:23222126
Islam is not man made. [67 words]Rahe AmalMar 8, 2015 08:17222126
2Radical islam and world [195 words]sahaniMar 5, 2015 10:21222125
Islam is the solution. [53 words]Rahe AmalMar 8, 2015 08:25222125
1Right -- Islam is the völkisch religion of the Arabs [110 words]MemomancerMar 8, 2015 16:05222125
1stuck [568 words]Mohammed Waza Khiddif Id'ullahMar 17, 2015 04:19222125
3Moderate totalitarianism ? [48 words]marlanMar 5, 2015 04:50222122
1Turkey's Former Secularism Vs Revived Secularism? [365 words]M. ToveyMar 4, 2015 19:25222119
4Daniel, I have difficulty agreeing with you [111 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Gary SackMar 4, 2015 14:40222115
2excellent exchange [71 words]Tim HadleyMar 4, 2015 13:55222114
But was the cure, nationalism, worse than the disease? [38 words]Abu NudnikMar 4, 2015 11:49222111
3Definition of "moderate Islam" [53 words]Al SegallMar 4, 2015 11:47222110
2Islam v. secularism [150 words]dhimmi no moreMar 4, 2015 11:36222109
mohammed's soda of choice? [43 words]Mohammed Waza Khiddif Id'ullahMar 6, 2015 22:38222109
1Only Allahu A'lam [85 words]dhimmi no moreMar 8, 2015 08:58222109
1Islam has gang appeal [287 words]Michael SApr 6, 2015 11:03222109
2Islam will change at an exponential speed [341 words]PrashantMar 4, 2015 10:45222107
Let's hope so. [69 words]ECAWMar 7, 2015 03:54222107
The myth of moderate Islam [314 words]ayatollahowmanyMar 4, 2015 10:13222106
Either/Or [22 words]ECAWMar 7, 2015 04:13222106
Meaning of Words [278 words]Sigmund DermanMar 4, 2015 10:06222104
3Islam must be abandon [68 words]Islam ForbidsMar 4, 2015 07:47222099
4Mohammed the Islamist [109 words]ECAWMar 4, 2015 05:20222097
2Mohammad - the original Islamist!! [128 words]JaladhiMar 11, 2015 09:36222097
the answer: the fall of the Icon [210 words]Piet-HeinMar 19, 2015 08:09222097
2Curing Violent Islam [60 words]Bill ColleyMar 4, 2015 04:53222096
1Comments on the article [132 words]HelenaMar 4, 2015 04:12222095
5"Moderate Islam" is still dangerous [412 words]Dale BaranowskiMar 4, 2015 04:09222094
moderate islam is just for show. [111 words]Mohammed Waza Khiddif Id'ullahMar 9, 2015 00:43222094
3The solution to **our** Islam problem is to remove them from the West [368 words]PaulMar 4, 2015 04:00222093
1The real solutiuon [199 words]GlenMar 4, 2015 03:41222092
2Moderate Islam [60 words]Paul SeverienMar 4, 2015 03:41222091
1Trust but verify... President Reagan [105 words]SHmuel HaLeviMar 4, 2015 02:22222090
Taking a different identity [138 words]SufiMar 4, 2015 01:58222089
2Question [162 words]David FarerMar 4, 2015 01:57222088
3What differentiates Islam from other religions and what can be done about it [187 words]G MarcusMar 4, 2015 01:49222087
Islam is Islam [25 words]steven LMar 4, 2015 00:51222086
1Islam is not responsible for conflicts. [482 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Rahe AmalMar 8, 2015 00:21222086
Back when I was a college student in 2004, I found you divisive Daniel Pipes [36 words]HamzaMay 8, 2015 12:10222086
1The Solution for Radical Islam Is Secularism [62 words]Kim BruceMar 4, 2015 00:20222085
4Secularism first--moderation follows [132 words]Dan SimonMar 4, 2015 00:01222083

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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