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learning from the wisdom sheiks

Reader comment on item: How Islamists Came to Dominate European Islam
in response to reader comment: belive me I am wide awake...are you?

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Jun 1, 2010 at 07:13

Eman, comfortable in the UAE, writes:

"....I didn't abuse, directly or indirectly insult, any prophet ( peace be upon all of them) so kindly,
don't insult the Prophet Mohammed( peace be upon him)."

If you live by muslim rules - good for you . Other people do not.
You'll just have to accept that - and the fact that they are free to do as they please.
Perhaps if your beloved (yet imaginary as far as you're concerned) Mo had not behaved so badly - he would not have invited criticism upon himself.

"1- Something about your initial sarcasm is unclear…what bothers you more?
Is it the fact that I am a Muslim or is it the fact that i live in wealthy country...or is it both?"

I couldn't care less if you are a muslim or not - or where you live. It's irrelevant.
Individual muslims are not my concern.

".. Is living in a prosperous country a reason to forget my brothers and sisters all over the world? What are you trying to hint?!.."
As you pointed out - I was not referring to your personal magnamity or lack of it. But now that you have brought it up, the activities of such august bodies as the Red Crescent treats is a good example. Who do they treat - virtually exclusively muslims - unless a photo op presents itself.

Yet its western counterparts actions speaks volumes about the difference in mindset:
http://undhimmi.com/2010/05/26/red-cross-trains-taliban-in-first-aid/
Another is where the sparse aid from rich muslim nations goes to. Guess which religion its recipients almost always are?

"...2- Self created problems, attitudes and activities….like what exactly,
do you mean; if a women covers her head and walks in public that's a self created problem (may be because it goes against your ( your plural) fashion trend) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8136500.stm"

Or am I referring to equally important matters such as when a kebab seller puts too much chilli sauce with the falafels?
No, if you haven't realised, I'm talking about far more serious matters that really do affect peoples lives. Such as territorial wars for the greater caliphate in Bosnia,
Kosovo, Chechnya, Azerbaijan. The palpable hatred of the Jews and the desire to rid the Middle east of its most prosperous and democratic state. The burning of churches and synagogies all throughout the muslm world and the persecution of non-muslims,.

And the delusional attitude that muslims are somehow 'more worthy' than an other human beings - which naturally leads to conflict wherever muslims are in the world.

"...3- Then comes "THE SWORD, ISLAM IS SPREAD BY THE SWORD." In the Koran chp2 verse 256 "There shall be no compulsion in (the acceptance) of religion..."

No, of course not. How coukld anyone ever get the slightest impression that there might have been?

http://www.realcourage.org/2010/05/mohamed-nazim/
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137789
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jdOWVCqFHG7JX7qgh1fGOv_fhwAgD9G1OH8G0
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=no-change-in-the-restrictive-tendencies-in-turkey-in-five-years--2010-05-27
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_57-pakistani-hindus-convert-to-islam-under-pressure_1388695
http://www.ucanews.com/2010/05/26/anti-christian-banners-are-dangerous-say-church-leaders
http://au.christiantoday.com/article/nigeria-three-churches-an-a-vicarage-demolished-in-kano-state/8285.htm
http://www.realcourage.org/2010/05/mohamed-nazim/

"....You don't like the Koran, fine; "
I think fairy tales do have a place - just not in the reading material of adults."

".....for 800 years Muslims ruled Spain, they were kicked out because they didn't fulfil their obligations, shame on us, but if they had ever applied any type of force or pressure, say economic, on those people for 800 years, not a single Christian would have been there,.."

So what are you saying - that if the muslim invaders had killed or persectuted all the original inabitants of Spain, there would be none left? Well, uh, yeah......

"... if they wanted to spread Islam and increase in number like you claim. Muslims ruled India for many years, when the partition happened; the Muslims took one-fourth and the Hindu three –quarters, why? "

You've been silly enough to bring up India?

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_bangla.html
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/irin/genocide.html
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TF5PUKFQU03U2MR4P
http://hinduexistence.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/49-million-hindus-missing-from-bangladesh-census-vanishing-hindu-and-other-india-root-minorities-from-indian-subcontinent/

No compulsion.? Really?

"...Which Muslim army went to Indonesia, Nigeria, the entire east coast of Africa? What sword? What sword? "

hmmm, maybe the one that forced hundreds of thousands into the arab slave trade?

"I'll tell you; IT'S THE SWORD OF INTELLECT."
Intellect ? That's why one of your co-cultists made these observations: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1824455.stm

Intellect.??I can't stop laughing.. Here's some wonderful examples of islamic intellect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBOZyx68QQw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4XH6R8G4Mw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLTYPbd4lPc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKh_1kLWOm0&feature=related

"...4- Enough has been said about 9/11 to proof it was an inside job, "
Right and winged donkeys 'with the face and breasts of a woman and the tail of a peacock' fly at supersonic speed.

"....but even if you want to blame SOME Muslims, then, if they are really responsible for that,
those who committed this major sin know what awaits them in this life and on the Day of Judgement .., "

Well did they or did they not? were not 19 Arabs of mostly saudi Extraction comandeer those planes on the day? And yet we actually saw real people in the muslim world actually celebrating when that happened. Somehow your points were lost on them. How does that happen?

".....for killing innocent people is not what our RELIGION teaches (because teachings of our cult ….sounds more like something out of a Dan Brown novel!) ; Chapter 2 of the Koran ,verse 177"
yes - but who is innocent? Why, surprise, surprise - it's only muslims.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0mFLSe1EEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

"....George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936 said "I have always held the
religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion
which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him – the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity."

Ah yes, poor old G.B.Shaw, the poet and dreamer.
http://rexcurry.net/george-bernard-shaw-superman-socialist-swastika-socialism.html

"............Shaw might not have been aware of what was happening under Soviet Socialism."
Neither was he aware of what was happening under islam.

Now, seeing you're i the business of quoting Western luminaries to extol the virtues of Islam,
take heed of Winston Churchill's oft-quited words - based on insight and experience:

"How dreadful are the curses which Islam lays on its votaries! Besides
the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog,
there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many
countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods
of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement;
the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan
law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property‹either as a
child, a wife, or a concubine must delay the final extinction of slavery until
the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Muslims
may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen;
all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.

Far from being moribund, Islam is a militant and proselytizing faith.
It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors
at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong
arms of science -the science against which it had vainly struggled -the civilisation
of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

John Wesley had this to say of Islam:

"Ever since the religion of Islam appeared in the world, the espousers of it…have been
as wolves and tigers to all other nations, rending and tearing all that fell into their
merciless paws, and grinding them with their iron teeth; that numberless cities are raised
from the foundation, and only their name remaining; that many countries, which were once as
the garden of God, are now a desolate wilderness; and that so many once numerous and powerful
nations are vanished from the earth! Such was, and is at this day, the rage, the fury,
the revenge, of these destroyers of human kind."

The Doctrine of Original Sin, Works (1841), ix. 205.

And Will Durant:

"The Mohammadan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history.
It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilisation is a precarious thing,
whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians from without or multiplying within. The Hindus had allowed their strength to be wasted in internal division and war; they had adopted religions like Buddhism and Jainism, which unnerved them for the tasks of life; they had failed to organise their forces for the protection of their frontiers and their capitsls, their wealth and their freedom, from the hordes of Scythians, Huns, Afghans and Turks hovering about India's boundaries and waiting for national weakness to let them in. For four hundred years (600-1000AD) India invited conquest; and, at last, it came"

"6- And yes THE QURAN IS PERFECT;ISLAM IS PERFECT, WE, HUMANS, ARE NOT…"

No - you can only say - 'In your opinion... the Koran is perfect'
.This is what your particular brain tells you is real.
And either you really believe it or you are smart enough to have realised its inconsistencies
but you lie anyway for the sake of Islam and because you haven't quite got the guts to
drop everything you believe to be true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMc3XMB6ZZg&feature=related

"...The difference between animals and humans is THE BRAIN;
the CHOICES WE MAKE THROUGH THE ABILITY OF REASONING. We have the religion , we know what is right and wrong , we choose…if the Muslims are not properly practising the religion, it's not the religion's fault it's theirs... (like the laws of any country)…we were born alone and we will die alone carrying our deeds, good and bad, with complete responsibility for them…It's perfect in every way you think of it,"

A Buddhist could have told you that 2,000 years ago. Islam has brought no new insights in its 1400 years.
What's the point of difference besides having a pedophile for a former leader? I can answer that question myself - theres a myriad of differences between the two. And no redeeming ones on the Islamic side.

"....right now, you see it economically, the world is turning to Islamic finance (the U.S Fed is setting nearly 0% interest) for solutions to the economic crisis started by the greed of those who live by sucking the life
off those working families who end up paying the double or triple the value of the original mortgage…
(is that fair?).."

Putting a bit of a populist spin on it there - yes we haye our mortages - 'hey, let's adopt Islamic banking'...
. It's a pity you believe your own BS.
Interest free loans are NOT an Islamic invention. They were done in Jewish times 2500 years ago.

"....And let us not get started on the suicide and crime rates in the West!"
right - just the other day, in my city, some churchgoers blew up 100 other churchgoers
because they didn't like what the other churchgoers believed. No... wait, sorry, it wasn't in my city at all.
In fact, I think I got it all wrong. They weren't churchgoers at all. Now, what were they again? And where was it??

"This religion speaks to the physical being and to the soul; "
- but doesn't mind destroying the bodies and souls of its non-adherents when it suits it.

If Islam speaks ' to the physical being and to the soul' , then Yoga screams it.

"it's a religion of moderation. If you ( you plural) truly study it you (you plural) will find that it answers the questions that everyone asks themselves, why am I here? What is the purpose of my creation? In which religion are you instructed to not harm the old, women, children and a TREE when you are fighting a battle?!"

Every religion. But a normal human being, free from hatred and psychological problems does not need a Koran to see the inhumanity of killing children and old ladies in any battle. Why do you feel the need to be instructed in that which needs no instruction?

"... Yes a tree; it's all in a Hadith (a saying) of Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him); unlike everything the world has witnessed at Abu Ghraib and the inhumane torture and sexual abuse conducted there…"

Sexual abuse goes on all through Muslim countries - every week. yes, those same contries that do not have a free and unfettered press.

"7- Unequal distribution of wealth… (What about hobos and homeless is USA?)"
There are poor in every country. peole make choices. But the gulf between the large numbers of extremely poor and the strata of extremely rich and privileged is very evident in muslim countries.

8-" I know that the red crescent of UAE is always doing a phenomenal job wherever help is needed (including Tsunami)…I know that for sure because I reside here (FYI, am not a UAE National)"
Let me guess a Pakistani. Not that it matters.

My own country gave far more money to Indonesia after its tsunami thanh all the muslim nations combined. What's your point?

In the end, I believe I touched on every point as briefly as possible ... so allow me to conclude the way you did: Remember the phrase: an Islamophobe is a person who has phobia of Islam and what is Phobia:
it is an anxiety disorder characterized by extreme and IRRATIONAL fear of simple things or
social situations… conquer your (your plural)fear, talk to a Muslim scholar (called Sheikh)


I think I've given you enough pointers on your scholarly 'sheiks'. already. Want more? OK. Nwever let it be said that I'm not a generous person:
Here are some of your learned sheiks - from whom we can all learn a great deal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpJC3f3UHk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2CD7dw28&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uudajsLWXgY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd9iqD_IXb4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-pmAoITQLY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtt8V25lGmc&feature=related

Ooops - nearly left this little clown out - the 'mufti of Australia'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxTO38BrUIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DKEOLDmuoo

"....and relax nobody will hold a sword against you to convert to Islam...that's not who we are..."

Right... and Mohammed split the mon with his little finger, right?

And remember - 'Islamophobia' is a made up word, coined by islmists, precisely to infer that people
who dislike islam have somethig wrong with them. Howver - the onus is on muslims to prive that islam has something right with it.

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against
the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say:
The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their
heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

Hope you continue to enjoy your wonderfully, enlightened and progressive religio/political system.

Submitting....

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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