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Response to commenter Mr Stasse

Reader comment on item: Europe vs. America

Submitted by Graham Spence (United Kingdom), Jan 15, 2003 at 11:26

I take your comments in the constructive manner in which they were intended, and my very British love of Irony (which has nothing to do with metallurgy) has proven a case in point, both about myself, and what I was trying to say about America and tactlessness. The bit about being late for the last two world wars was nothing more than a joke in an attempt to lighten the prose. Strangely enough, I paused at the time, uncertain if the joke would traverse the pond. It did not, and I failed to make what I was trying to say come over well, and as such I was tactless.

Ironic really.

The American people as individuals, and as a nation have a capacity for can-do attitude and self-confidence which I find inspiring and life affirming. It is your greatest asset. Your Constitution, which is for me the most beautiful piece of prose ever written, and I come from a country that gave birth to Scott, Dickens Shakespeare and Burns. Your constitution places humanity and the individual at the centre of the universe, enshrines freedom, democracy and responsibility and most importantly of all, recognizes the existence of and protects permanent minorities. This has never been done before or since. It is one of the great peaks of human civilization. It is up there with Plato, Einstein and Isombard Kingdom Brunell (he did a lot of stuff with railways and bridges made of iron, which is to do with metallurgy, although I would not call anything he made irony: it would only confuse the issue)

Regarding why we love Vidal et al is to do with the British & European love of authority challenged & satirized. Criticism of our powers that be have been a long tradition in Europe, from The Court Jester to Punch and Judy, from Voltaire to Monty Python. We do not like seeing the great and the good, or as I prefer to call them, the usual suspects, getting too big for their boots. This is healthy and as much a part of democracy as voting. The fact that we can disagree with our leaders is the source of the strength of our way of life. Politicians have a bad habit of being unable to differentiate between what is good for them, and what is good for the country; they seem to think they are one and the same, and we need people like Gore Vidal to keep them on their toes. Politicians are bad enough when they are smug, but smug, comfortable and secure is too much. Tolerating Vidal et al is a small price to pay even if it does mean listening to him harp on endlessly about what it means to be a man, and how Germain Greer, ball breaker that she is emasculated him. No doubt that is something we would all like to have seen, but hey it’s good enough to know it happened.

On the wider front, this conflict is the last battle of ideologies, and it is Islam and the West who are truly in conflict. There are 1 billion Muslims in the world. All Muslim teaching tells us that only Allah has the right to make laws, and therefore the fundamental basis of these two civilizations are diametrically opposed and bound to conflict. It was only a matter of time.

As one of my fellow countrymen once said, "East is East and West is West, and ne'er the twain shall meet." Unless of course Brunell had been involved, but even his engineering skills would have been hard pushed to the limit to build a bridge between those two.

For us (and I mean both the first 50 and the 51st state) to suggest that democracy is the answer to the problems of an Islamic nation would be like telling George W Bush that communism is the answer to getting his spending plans through Congress. And it would also have the added bonus of him not having to worry about re-election, or that bloke called Chad that seemed to cause so many problems last time. Lets try that one again from a different angle…imagine you’re with a fundamentalist Muslim and you try to sell the benefits of Western Culture to him.

"Mohammed, you guys need to get some democracy and freedom of thought. Now I know that that means giving up two thirds of the real basics of your religion, but hey, think of it, a Starbucks in every Mosque! By the way, do you want extra bacon on that Double Bacon & Cheese MacHeartAttack? And can you pass that beef-burger over to the Hindu bloke. Oh, I nearly forgot, here’s that Britney Spears outfit, CD and dance DVD I got for your 13-year-old daughter. She will be able to show off her belly and ass and dance for all your relatives at Christmas. I even managed to get a years subscription to Playboy for your son!"

If you think that is far from the truth, think about how our economy works, how we export it to the East and how that might just upset some people and come over as tactless. We may give them the economic advantages of tourism, but when their sons stop going to the Mosque on Fridays because they are hanging around in bars, drinking Bud and picking up western females in the new red light district you might see how an ancient society, unchanged in a thousand years might destabilize; you might even see why their parents would get a bit pissed, and we could be seen as tactless, self-centered, and a threat to their way of life, regardless of how many hospitals we build to cure them of their recently acquired STDs.

They also think we are doing it deliberately. Hmm, I will have to have a think about that…

All the western nations are guilty a similar lack of tact. In the 19th century, the UK army gave Hindu soldiers bullets that they had to bite into, that were soaked in cow fat! Where the rest of the perception of American tactlessness stems is from is when your own self-interest is in contest with the greater good. At least you guys test your atomic bombs on American soil or in space. The French find some atoll on the other side of the world, and when Greenpeace protest, they sink their boat and murder a photographer. All countries do the same in some form or another. The reason you come in for so much hate mail is because you always win.

Well, apart from Vietnam.

The problem with always winning is that means that someone else always looses. Given enough time, you have beaten everyone and people remember. From meddling in South American democracies in the 1950s through to Kyoto and the unilateral ending of the ICBM treaty, America does what he wants. When Uncle Sam walks away from the ICBM treaty, it is sensible and necessary for world security. When North Korea unilaterally ends a Non Proliferation Treaty, they become the fulcrum of the axis of evil. With respect to Kyoto, a rise in sea level of say 10cm will not cause a problem in New York.... it may even clean the streets a bit, but it will cause a bit of a problem in the Maldives, which exist at about 9cm above sea level.....sorry, update there, 8cm above.....no, 7 ......no, 6 ……. oops!

This is seen as double standards, despite the fact that every nation on earth would do exactly the same if they could. Especially the French. If you doubt this read the History of every European Empire from Greece & Rome onwards.

Doing what is right for you is not always best in the long term. It is the same logic that thinks that Volvos are the safest cars in the world. That is of course until you are driving a Citroen 2CV, weighing 200Kg, including the driver (except in Idaho of course, where it is nearer 400Kg) and a three tonne Volvo 440 hits you at 135 mph. America is seen by many seen as the equivalent of the Volvo driver, who on getting out of the car will say " what is that irony patch on the road" and, having seen your obituary three days later and the penny drops, says to his wife, "I’m glad we bought the Volvo. I told you they were safe"

You are big, powerful and what you say goes. International Relations are not that different from junior-school playground politics, and there will always be someone who feels hard done by, no matter how unfounded that belief is. There are few emotions more powerful than the self-pity of an under-achiever and compared to you guys, that is what the rest of the world is. Imagine how you would feel if for 1,400 years every member of your society hade been told that they are Gods special people, and they have a right and responsibility to rule the world, and that anyone who does not share your belief in this is in league with the devil. Anyone who can harness all that self-pity, resentment and absolute faith can create a lot of trouble, Q.E.D Mr. Bin Laden.

Regarding Europe though, don’t worry about the French, and don’t take it personally, they are like that with everyone, and are still in a huff over Waterloo. If you have ever eaten in a French Restaurant, you will know what I mean. They always will whine but always come on board because deep down they know they have not won a war for over 200 years. As for the Germans, just get all the Lawyers in America to stop buying BMWs for a week, their economy will enter freefall, and they will jump into line too.

As for us, we will always be there, and your success does not make us feel inferior because although you know that you will always have the industrial economic powerhouse of Pittsburgh, we know we will always have irony, and that allows us to feel a bit smug and superior.

P.S. Pittsburgh is the one you call the Irony City, isn’t it?

Graham Spence.
Submitting....

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Reader comments (159) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
vacation [16 words]AdamFeb 10, 2012 23:24193284
2European union was a mistake [73 words]Judit SabaterFeb 23, 2008 23:52120925
2Grow up [141 words]VinnieJun 1, 2010 12:40120925
3America vs Europe? The basic difference. [483 words]Seth R BaileyJun 24, 2007 16:38100665
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1Europe v America 2008 [373 words]TerryDec 27, 2007 19:40100665
wow. this is why. [123 words]ChelseaApr 12, 2008 22:22100665
1wow, that was the least useful answer you could have given. [176 words]JorisApr 25, 2008 06:08100665
Least useful reply you...no anyone, could have given [112 words]ChelseaJun 10, 2008 20:55100665
Iraq did 9/11? [247 words]JorisJun 20, 2008 02:42100665
Joris- You are entirely missing the point - Radical Islam knows no sovereignty! [605 words]saraJun 20, 2008 17:24100665
Joris get your facts straight [659 words]ChelseaJun 21, 2008 03:44100665
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Typical American comment [87 words]RichardNov 19, 2008 15:47100665
Reply to Richard [90 words]jennifer solisNov 20, 2008 11:57100665
to Chelsea, [212 words]johnDec 9, 2008 04:48100665
The US should help themselves, instead of "helping" Iraq [47 words]dutchmanDec 9, 2008 10:26100665
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Myopia [32 words]jennifer solisMar 8, 2009 23:30100665
oh yeah? [49 words]ErikaMar 10, 2009 08:48100665
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What? [212 words]mediancaMar 18, 2009 14:27100665
BUSH [54 words]btillyMar 19, 2009 13:41100665
This ... American [248 words]Vinnie Munoz CanoApr 1, 2009 13:17100665
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fool [37 words]stanAug 17, 2009 02:07100665
sorry, no [72 words]mariaSep 5, 2009 14:19100665
WW2 has been over for a very long time, maam !!! [74 words]mariaSep 5, 2009 14:27100665
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We think that? [93 words]JakobSep 19, 2010 22:30100665
1Shallow mis-dis-information and stereotyping . [2264 words]E. ViscontiSep 21, 2010 04:15100665
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im sorry in real life this is the other way around. [121 words]aliOct 31, 2008 12:4413490
1History [300 words]MogensFeb 8, 2009 13:3513490
THE QUESTION IS....... [11 words]CharleneJan 28, 2010 06:0613490
you are wrong! [91 words]benJan 19, 2004 03:0113402
you are wrong! [53 words]MesoJun 5, 2006 04:5613402
1claims that US "deserved what they got" on 9/11 [153 words]REDec 12, 2003 10:2112637
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America deserved all they got and so did we [581 words]Andrew MacLeodJul 19, 2006 15:2912637
reply [136 words]bernard morreyMay 2, 2007 07:1312637
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Your take on the Sanes insight in email #294 [295 words]J. Keen HollandJan 29, 2003 14:346105
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Response to Mr. Brux.. [127 words]amiexpatJan 31, 2003 08:025979
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US/European Differences [135 words]Robert StephensonJan 23, 2003 11:515909
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Calisse, see my reply to Joris, I would be interested in your response as well [34 words]saraJun 20, 2008 18:405878
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Asians ? [8 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
B. WeissJan 14, 2003 13:425737
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France and Europe against the USA by reader Prof. Richard Millman [131 words]MesoJun 5, 2006 04:415715
Attitudes in Europe. [606 words]Graham SpenceJan 14, 2003 07:315714
Response to commenter Graham Spence [103 words]Jeff P.Jan 14, 2003 11:395714
Response to Jeff P [593 words]Graham SpenceJan 15, 2003 13:305714
EU [214 words]Ante GranićFeb 26, 2006 08:185714
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Religious 'fundamentalism' is an American phenomenon [81 words]Orestis LindermayerJan 14, 2003 05:375707
Commenter Lindermayer is classic [222 words]RichardJan 14, 2003 13:105707

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