hostile and nasty

Submitted by Abdul Rahman Reijerink (Australia), Jul 14, 2006 at 06:07

Sarcasm is ugly. Very.

No I do not debate what Ibn Taymmiya and Qutb say. It is written fact that I will not deny. I do not have to agree with them. Neither do other scholars. many do not.

If you can't see the connection between the different words in the root meanings then God help you.

The root (without diacritical marks) is as you say KFR, the same for every word you cite, therefore their meanings ARE all linked in some way according to the native arab speakers (university teachers and religious scholars) who I have talked to and listened to.

You will note that if Ibn Taymmiya and Qutb were correct in their virulent hatred of their fellow muslims, that the meaning I cite [ie to cover the truth] would actually be appropriate ie IF celebrating the mawlid was shirk [polytheism] then from a muslim it would be an act of Kufr or covering up the truth of tawhid [monotheism], since as muslims they should know that tawhid is truth and shirk [polytheism] falsehood.

The author of a dictionary is NOT a primary source.

Do you know the difference between denotative meaning and connotative meaning? I suggest that "irreligious, UNBELIEVER (in Islam), _INFIDEL_, atheist, ungrateful" is an acquired meaning through association and not a literal meaning just like muslim "one who submits [to the will of God]" has come to mean someone who believes (whether they are in a state of true submission or not).

Calling my arguement based on the Qur'an "hot air" is rather weak, it is a primary source where a dictionary clearly is not, it is secondary material based on compilation and research.... unless you assert that he actually coined all of the words in the dictionary, which I am sure you do not.

I will restate it in a manner that should be accpetable for your demands.

Qur'an translated by Ali chapter 5 verse 69

Those who believe (in the Qur'an). Those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), And the Sabians and the Christians,- ANY [my emphasis] who believe in Allah [i.e. one God] And the Last Day, And work righteousness,- On them shall be no fear, Nor shall they grieve.

That is the promise from God, not the opinion of a scholar or a man who compiled his understanding of the language in a book.

I am no scholar so I am not qualified to give interpretation on this verse, but any that I have heard freely admit that it applies to anyone who truly believes in the oneness of God and does good deeds, [however some of them try to qualify it by saying that if someone hears about Islam and does not become a muslim it does not apply to them- a position that I think is weak and do not hold]. Are you a native arab speaker? or are you just relying on a dictionary?

Being smart and transliterating my name for me is not very clever, I do have enough arabic to know, but I stick with the common usage thankyou. Whatever your differences with someone, you should really show more respect when debating with people, your behaviour in your last posting is very unbecoming. You can be right and still have nice words with someone that you think is wrong.

You still have not answered to my satisfaction why I should ignore the opinions of Pakistanis, while ignoring the fact that non-Pakistani scholars who have learnt in Arab nations and north Africa follow similar usages. The fact is that many Pakistanis teach the Arabs now, yes their accent can be terrible but that does not affect their knowledge.

The real test is not in visiting Cairo or anywhere else, the truth lies with God alone, all we can do is make sincere attempts to uncover it.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".