For Abd al-Rahman (this is the proper transliteration of your name)

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 6, 2006 at 18:48

Did you ever hear of Ibn Manzur and do you know anything about him? And did you ever hear of his Lisan al-'Arab? It is a nice little invention called the Arabic dictionary par excellence!

I suspect you know no Arabic and that is OK, and I suspect that Ibn Manzur's dictionary will be beyond, and you must pardon me, you. I do not know where you live, and if you live here in the US you can go to your nearest Borders or B&N and check "The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Arabic" and check pages 832B and 833A and yes Hans Wehr follows in the path of Ibn Manzur word for word.

And now this is what it says page 833A the root is from KFR and no it does not have anything to do with:

1. Kafara or hide (you only hear this nonsense from Pakistanis that do not understand the Arabic language root system because if you think for a minute that it has anything to do with kafara, I can argue very much that it also can have some thing in common with the word Kafr or village as you sahll see in 2).

2. Kafr (kaf feh reh) or village.

All these words might have the same root but they are as different as it can get. And this is the nature of the semitic root system. Do you see my point here? ...It is total ignorance of the Arabic language if you link the the following words:

1. Yakfur or he becomes a kafir or an infidel ( Sibawayhe's yaf'al)

2. Kafara or he covers ( Sibawayhe's fa'ala)

3. The word kafr (Sibawayhe's Fi'l) or village.

So ya ayuha al-faylasoof al-kabeer do you think that may be a village and cover and kafir are all one and the same? I'm just being sarcastic here.

Now this is what it says in the dictionary: "kafir (kaf alif feh reh) pl. kuffar (kaf with a damma, feh with a shadda and a fatha, reh) , kafra, kifar: irreligious, UNBELIEVER (in Islam), _INFIDEL_, atheist, ungrateful."

Nothing about your and you must pardon me your bogus falsaffa, covering the truth that is.

I noticed that you did not debate my statement about ibn Taymiyya and Sayyid Qutb who declared that Muslims (oh the warm and fuzzy Islam!) can also be declared at times as kuffar. You did not ask me for a reference, and now I will provide with one and it is Ibn Taymiyya's" kitab iqtida al-sirat al-mustaqim" And notice that ibn Taymiyya called those Muslims that celebrate maulid al-Nabi (oh I forgot you know no Arabic: Muhammad's birthday) or if they visit a Sufi tomb they (those Muslims that is) are :KUFAR. This is the word that this guy called his other Muslims.

You wrote: "Yusuf Hamza" and who is he? And should I believe him but not believe ibn Manzur? Did you ever hear of something called a primary source, and you must agree with me Mr. Yusuf who ever he is ain't a primary source. Ibn Manzur is a primary source.

Then you wrote: "It is not enough to assert that kaffir means non-Muslims. You must porve it" So what do you want me to do? Coduct a study to prove to you something that you can find in the Arabic dictionary par excellence: Lisan al-'Arab? What dot you think Abd al-Rahamn?

Then you wrote: " The Qur'an clearly states that anyone who believes in God and does good deeds while believing in the day of judgment has no need for fear this includes non-Muslims yet kuffar are people destineed for hell expalin that to me."

You must pardon me but this is nothing but blah....blah...blah. Lots of hot air but no meaning. ... Hint: quote a dictionary!

The real test is if you can visit let us say Cairo or Damascus and ask anyone who is a kafir? If you tell them about your little thing about " to cover the truth" or whatever, they will think that you are, and you must pardon me, ignorant and funny.

To the readers of the thread:

A kafir is:

1. A non-Muslim (as if non Muslims care).

2. A muslim under certain condtions described above.

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