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Debanjan, here is the "justification" of my statements

Reader comment on item: When Obama Meets Netanyahu
in response to reader comment: How do you know ...?

Submitted by Leonid Tokman (United States), Apr 11, 2010 at 04:26

Frankly, I am tired of this discussion because we all know that no logical argument from anyone here is going to change your perception of reality -- you simply filter out all information that does not fall in line with your beliefs (and that's why Robert Fisk and Noam Chomsky are your idols).

But I'll answer your questions.

Please justify your statement with proof that I am a bigot. Emotional outburst like this one is unjustified without any proof from you. I am rational as anyone.

The proof is all over your postings, but to be more specific, even your completely false statements about U.S. doing fighting for Israel or Israel being an apartheid state are clear examples of your deep-seated resentment of Israel and Jews. And your respect of Noam Chomsky or Avram Burg is not proof to the contrary -- one of the favorite statements of many antisemites (especially the "enlightened" kind, like you surely are) is that they have some Jewish friends or that they are not anti-Jewish, but anti-Israel, etc., etc., etc. It's those "coarse and rough" bigots like Hitler or like many of your co-religionists who openly and honestly state that all Jews must be annihilated. The "enlightened and sophisticated ones", like yourself, prefer to masquerade their hatred under the mask of liberalism, faulting Israel and Jews for all sins of the mankind and singling out Israel as the worst nation on the planet, while ignoring horrible injustices all across the globe (the number of U.N. anti-Israel resolutions far exceeds the combined number of all other resolutions related to massacres and human rights abuses in Africa, Asia, etc.).

Like, Martin Luther King Jr. has correctly noted: "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism"

Noam Chomsky is a perfect example of a self-hating Jew. Therefore, he hates Israel and thus has earned your respect.

" I challenged you to provide a name of at least couple of mainstream , conservative Western intellectuals who has as much intellect or genius about middle east such as Robert Fisk or Noam Chomsky"

Well, Daniel Pipes has at least as much knowledge of the Middle East history, languages, culture, and politics as Chomsky and Fisk combined. He may not be a mathematical linguist, like Chomsky, but I don't think that's a prerequisite for understanding the history of this region. The only problem, as far as you are concerned, is that he is not nuts like Chomsky and is not a liberal antisemite, like Fisk (see the above paragraph again about liberal antisemites).

"See , you need to understand the viewpoints of someone like Robert Fisk or me. See Bin Ladens do not grow in a vacuum. There are significant political grievances between the West and the Muslims. There needs to be some understanding from the Western viewpoint about these grievances. See neither me nor Fisk nor Chomsky support terrorism. I personally condemn atrocities like 9/11 or suicide bombings in Israel or Russia. But what people like Fisk wants to investigate is that what motivates the young men and women in the Muslim world to take up a heinous suicide bombing like this "

A couple of points here.

First of all, how many anti-"Muslim extremism" events (demonstrations, forums, etc.) have you seen, say after 9/11 or after Daniel Pear's beheading or after killing 300 Russian schoolchildren or after Mumbai? And how many have you personally attended/participated in? Can you tell me that after Mumbai you were as appalled by the people of your own faith who have committed this heinous atrocity as you were by "the apartheid" Israel in your posting here? Have you posted messages on Muslim websites condemning those Mumbai crimes?

I am pretty sure you have not. Most of the "enlightened liberals" like yourself, start out by saying that they are against these murders, but then right away start looking for a "rational explanation", and find the other side at fault. Rather than unequivocally stating that killing innocent people is wrong, you find justification for people like Bin Laden -- Muslims are oppressed, Muslims have been hurt, etc. "Enlightened" people like you sympathize with the extremists, and thus silently approve of their actions (at the very least by keeping silent)! That "silent support" creates a good breeding environment for the small fraction of extremists willing to commit the atrocities!

You say that Muslims have grievances with the West. Well, why then are Muslims murdering people in India? Or in the Philippines? Or in Sudan?

Last I checked, those places are not exactly "the West".

See, it looks like, according to you and Robert Fisk, Muslims are always the victims, and therefore there is a justification for whatever they do. It's like allowing a spoiled child to get away with more and more serious misdeeds, only to make him a more spoiled brat.

There are a lot of other nations and ethinic groups who have been hurt throughout history and who have grievances, but we see 99% of today's Mumbai-like violence coming only from Muslims. Why is that?

Maybe, if you and Robert Fisk were more honest and brave, you would state that the problem stems from a religious philosophy that divides the world into the "house of Islam" and the "house of War". This philosophy justifies killing infidels -- women and children among them.

Maybe this religion needs "a reformation", similar to what other religions have gone through.

Maybe then Bin Laden and his friends will no longer find supportive audience throughout Asia, Europe, and even the U.S.?

Maybe then you and the other 1.5 billion Muslims will realize that the existence of this small piece of land inhabited by 6 million Jews is not the root of all evil in the world and the reason for all Muslims' problems?

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (103) on this item

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Reality as seen from the swamp. Eretz Israel [250 words]SHmuel HaLeviMar 29, 2010 09:43170747
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US-Israel "special" relationship [120 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Debanjan BanerjeeMar 27, 2010 08:13170669
Debanjan's short memory!!! [350 words]JaladhiMar 30, 2010 18:14170669
Mr.Debanjan Banerjee's antisemitic bigotry is so transparent... [70 words]Leonid TokmanMar 31, 2010 11:52170669
Madam, why people never asks the opposite? [100 words]T & JMar 31, 2010 17:17170669
A reply to Jaladhi [606 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 1, 2010 06:02170669
Jaladhi, you are exactly right on point! [154 words]Leonid TokmanApr 1, 2010 11:59170669
To Mr. Leonid Tokman [113 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 2, 2010 05:18170669
Our dear Deb is back [160 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2010 06:55170669
To Mr. Facts and Figures (aka Debanjan Banerjee) [484 words]JeffApr 2, 2010 13:31170669
Jaladhi, and the False Prophets of Islam [466 words]LOU FROM QUEENS,NYC, USAApr 2, 2010 16:00170669
Debanjan, you need to start reading more than just the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and their modern day equivalents [356 words]Leonid TokmanApr 2, 2010 19:56170669
To Mr. Jeff Israeli [466 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 3, 2010 09:07170669
Reply to DNM [69 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 3, 2010 23:06170669
A reply to Leonid Tokman [255 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 3, 2010 23:19170669
Our dear Deb has nothing to say [198 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2010 07:01170669
Muslim hate for Jews!! [109 words]JaladhiApr 5, 2010 11:22170669
Debanjan, everyone here realizes ... [87 words]Leonid TokmanApr 5, 2010 12:12170669
Robert Fisk as the authority -- sure thing! [118 words]Leonid TokmanApr 5, 2010 13:05170669
By the way, you need to learn to answer questions, rather than call people names [177 words]Leonid TokmanApr 5, 2010 15:02170669
1History Lessons for Debanjan!!! [1331 words]JaladhiApr 5, 2010 21:09170669
To DNM [101 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 6, 2010 00:51170669
Reply to Leonid [50 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 6, 2010 02:16170669
No questions on Robert Fisk's authority [76 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 6, 2010 02:45170669
From the Israeli who's never been to Israel [942 words]JeffApr 6, 2010 12:40170669
Debanjan, how in the world do you know that I haven't been to the Middle East? [253 words]Leonid TokmanApr 6, 2010 18:36170669
Debanjan, I think you need to reread the article before making an unsupportable claim [181 words]Leonid TokmanApr 6, 2010 18:54170669
More bogus claims from our dear Deb [316 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2010 16:40170669
How do you know ...? [530 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 9, 2010 22:07170669
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Jai Hind (did I spell it right?) [34 words]Peter HerzApr 10, 2010 22:44170669
A response to Mr. Devasahayam [189 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 10, 2010 23:44170669
Debanjan, here is the "justification" of my statements [966 words]Leonid TokmanApr 11, 2010 04:26170669
What Authority [128 words]DevasahayamApr 11, 2010 21:24170669
Devasahayam, you won't be able to use logic in your dialogue with Debanjan... [225 words]Leonid TokmanApr 12, 2010 19:57170669
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Mark my comment as a response to Debanjan, here is the "justification" of my statements by Leonid Tokman

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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