69 million page views

discussing reasonably - how to do it

Reader comment on item: The Burqa Wars
in response to reader comment: Common sense is quite uncommon

Submitted by G.Vishvas (India), Sep 20, 2009 at 01:41

To Kashayar (USA)

To regard and declare one's own writing as excellent and the other person's writing as drivel is a cheapskate tactic. It gives away your inability to discuss reasonably. But that is what I notice in all my discussion with muslims. They are impatient, declare their own victory in any discussion and cease. Somewhat like what Bush did in Irak. So when you call my postings a drivel – what does that mean?

In your posting you have come up with a lot of valid criticism of RSS, VHP, Golwalkar, treatment of Biharis in Mumbai etc. But islam does not become better or perfect or uncritisizable because of any crimes or idiocies carried out by hindus. This too is a typical muslim reaction. If I criticize islam then this criticism has to be evaluated on this basis only – irrespective of any sins, crimes or mistakes done by non-muslims. Muslims fail to appreciate this crucial aspect of any discussion. I do not claim that hindu religions (note the plural) become any better because islam is not perfect. This is especially true in case of all religions, because all religions claim some special connection to the highest truth. This claim excludes the possibility of coming up with any excuses or pointing to the other peoples' failures etc. Fact is, there are Hinduism-criticizing websites - and the danielpipes.org is not one of them. This website has made it a task to expose islam and arabs and their lies and violence. If we wish to discuss the evils in hindu religions then we shall have to discuss them through some other website or blog. I hope you understand this respectful self-discipline. We cannot make use of a website created by Dr. Daniel Pipes to discuss the evils in hindu religions. In fact Dr. Pipes even refuses to take notice of the sufferings which islam has caused to hindus. ... Fact is, arabs, pseudo-arabs, muslims, sunni fascists, shia fascists, neo-nazis are the sworn enemies of jews and Israel today. This follows from the kuran and ahadith which you muslims wish to (and must) put into practice. I as a hindu can only write in Dr. Pipes forum in order to bring out the parallels between jewish sufferings and hindu sufferings resulting from islam. Strictly speaking Dr. Pipes can forbid me from doing even that – after all it is his private ... forum.

Whatever that be – by pointing out the sins, crimes and idiocies done by the hindus you have not succeeded in refuting the sins, crimes and idiocies of islam and muslims.

The question that then crops up is: what are the sentences in the kuran and hadith that cause islam to become a fascist totalitarian arab-centric-chauvinist imperialist ideology.

Islam claims to be the final perfect revelation and religion – something which none of the present-day hindu religions (or sects) claim to be. Hence islam has to be judged by different standards of strictness. It cannot be done like some two small school boys bickering with one another.

You wrote : "What about Bali in Ramayana who kept his brother Sugreev's wife by force after kicking him out ? What about Pandavas and Kauravas in Mahabharat ? Your Dharmaraj Yudishtra wagered his wife to his brothers in the game of dice? Or Bimbisara and Ajatashatru where son killed the father for the throne?"

Fact is, these persons are not worshipped by hindus. But Aurangzeb is regarded as a hero of islam. Muslim sunni orthodoxy glorified Aurangzeb's killing of his elder brother Dara Shukoh. If you visit Aurangzeb's grave in Khuldabad then you will get to know how the muslim grave-tender says words of praise about Aurangzeb even today.

You write Gandhi was killed by a hindu terrorist. That is not true. A terrorist hides himself from law after committing the crime. A terrorist also kills indiscriminately. That is what the killer of Gandhi did not do. He aimed his bullets only at Gandhi and no one else and after the deed he handed himself over to the police and said clearly in the court that he deserves to be hanged because he has killed a human being. Even Jawed Naqvi (Dawn,s muslim correspondent in Delhi) appreciates this crucial difference. BTW, I myself do not approve of what the brahmin killer of Gandhi did. Not only was it an evil deed but also a foolish deed because it gave the anti-brahminic and anti-hindu forces in India much fuel. The damage which Gandhi did to the hindus (through his appeasement of the agents and quislings of islam) could not be undone by this deed anyway.

You wrote; "The Indian muslim cannot and must not be held accountable for the actions of Muslims in Pakistan."

Right - but the Indian muslim must be held responsible for the demographic aggression which he is carrying out in India. Their population component has increased from 6.5% to 16% in 60 years. This demographic aggression, in an already overpopulated land, is certainly not a peace-bringing factor. Hindu animosity against muslims would have been much less (not zero, but much less that what it is now) if the population component of muslims had remained at 6.5%. Actually 90% of muslims had wanted Pakistan hence they had no right to remain in the non-pakistani part of british India after August 1945. So their fair population component in India would be only less than 1%. Therefore even a 6.5% muslim population component in India would be an unfair burden, insult, injustice, danger and injury to the hindus. What to speak of 16%.

Since islam was created in Makkah and not in the Indian Subcontinent (ISC) hence islam and its agents and quislings have no right to determine boundaries, policies, worship forms, politics, jurisprudence etc. in the ISC. This explains why I, with correct and valid justification, regard islam as an alien imperialist ideology that is incompatible with self-respecting indian-ness (even in its broadest definition). Monotheism is by nature absolutist-totalitarian – and in its islamic-arabic form it becomes the most fascist-arabic-imperialist form of totalitarianism. I get emails from Pakistan where persons with muslim names (i.e. born muslims) say that my criticism of islam is correct. I myself have formed my judgment of islam by reading pakistani newspapers (newspapers published by muslims for muslims in a 97% muslim land). A pakistani muslim (a mohajir immigrant from India) said that he realized that islam is a totalitarian ideology, but he has now made his peace with this fact since he cannot leave Pakistan or cannot be safe in Pakistan if he criticizes or rejects openly.

Hindu religions wish to remain in ISC whereas islam wishes to conquer the whole world and bring it under its arabic-monotheistic totalitarianism. If one is imperfect and idiotic (which is the case of both islam and hindu religions – but more so in case of islam) then one should at least remain in one's own house and not try to spread all over the place. If you are infected by an infectious brain illness then why go about spreading it or increasing the number of those afflicted by it?

There are 9 criteria of determining the fascism-totalitarianism content of an ideology or religion, like the following ones (and may be there are some more):

1.2.3.) Treatment of ex-members, women, non-members

4.5.6.) Control over education, media, entertainment

7.8.9.) Control over history-writing, faith (worship), jurisprudence

We can and must judge every religion or ideology on this basis. Islam turns out to be the ideology and religion with the maximum fascism-totalitarianism content and intent today. Islam's past glories, if there were any, are of no use today. Islam has marched off into the fascist-totalitarian direction (more than ever before) in an irreversible manner. Since islam uses the word god for its fascist purposes and methods, hence islam has to be classified as a blasphemous ideology also.

You seem to be quite at ease using the word "paki". I never use such words. Pakistan is the experiment of islam on hindu lands and it shows convincingly that a good honest peaceful relaxed human society cannot be founded or maintained on the basis of islam. We have to appreciate that fully and openly, and not ridicule the misled-misused-disfigured-trampled-upon citizens of Pakistan as pakis. Remember: the Pakistanis are the real hindus (=inhabitants of the Sindhu river basin, as per the original meaning of the word Hindu). Do not humiliate them or tease them. So long their loyalty is manipulated towards the arab fascist god allah and the arab fascist strongman Mohammad, they are not and cannot be my brothers. But I do sympathetically understand their self-inflicted-islamic pains, self-deceits, misguidance and tragedies.



Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to discussing reasonably - how to do it by G.Vishvas

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)