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1669 The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina & Antidisestablishmentarianism

Reader comment on item: Conservatism's Hidden History

Submitted by Robert (United States), Sep 14, 2018 at 11:14

Dear Daniel Pipes,

As you know, until more or less World War I, the United States was Intellectually provincial. What was Western Civilization was most manifest in five (5) great colonial empires: (1) Great Britain, (2) France, (3) Germany, (4) Austria-Hungary, and (5) Russia. The United States was still an intellectual backwater where "West" meant the unexplored and unknown Frontier. For example, in Mathematics, towards the end of the 19th Century, it was Germany, where David Hilbert taught that an American graduate student looked to for pursuing his studies. We Americans, for all our other intellectual requirement looked to Great Britain, including Law, Philosophy and Political Science.

To understand Euclid's Axiomatics,it was Hobbes we admired - because he was infatuated with Euclid, so was Thomas Jefferson who embodied it in our Declaration of Independence; but this document was merely the Rationalization for breaking away from the British Empire, and had no direct legal consequence, as in the case of the 13 Colonial Charters.

In point of fact, the was to understand John Locke's "social contract" isn't in theory, but practice: it was he who drafted "The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina" (1669):

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/nc05.asp

By 1776, we Americans lived under 13 distinction colonial charters, and each was a "social contract" as understood by John Locke. Every COLONIALIST who arrived by ship on the East Coast (New England) had arrived in the "WILDERNESS" subject to the Contract of the particular Colony.

When the American Revolution came, these Americans (the "Liberals" as opposed to the "Conservatives") merely adjusted their Social Contracts - each of the 13 Charters - to reflected the elimination of the King or Queen of England or its Dominions as a Party to the Contract. In other words, the "Liberals" converted our Monarchic Constitution into a Democratic-Republican one. But isn't it 'better" to call these "liberals," "radicals" instead?

Regarding the characterization of Alexander Hamilton as a Conservative in implicit opposition to Thomas Jefferson, because the latter drafted the Declaration of Independence, with its effective dramatic locution,"We hold these truths to be self evident,that all men are created equal" (with Benjamin Franklyn's editing), we must consider the former's assumption of the title as Publius in the authorship of "The Federalists." The term "Publius" takes one back to the days of Rome, Republican and Imperial. Jefferson wasn't one of the activists in the three (3) Federalist Papers,and he was a true Gentry, unlike urban Hamilton who subsequently championed our first central bank, the First Bank of the United States. Accordingly, Alexander Hamilton was not only not a Conservative, but he wasn't even a Liberal - he was a Radical Second Revolutionary, by which I mean the 1778-1789 [2nd] "Revolution." Instead of "amending" the Articles of Confederation (the 1st American Constitution), under the "Presidency" of George Washington, a literally "secret"meeting took place whereby the American Constitution was drafted by this Constitutional Convention. Once drafted, Alexander Hamilton solicited the services of James Madison and John Jay in the "revolutionary conspiracy" to write what later became known as the "Federalist Papers." It was these three Founding Fathers who effectively initiated the "Propaganda" campaign in support of the adoption of our new federal constitution (to replace the weak Articles) among the 13 American States (Soverign). In brief, Founding Father Alexander Hamilton, instead of being a Conservative was a Radical Left-Wing Revolutionary and arguably the Most Responsible for the current (several times amended since 1789) Constitution of the United States.

In summary, Conservatives are generally the ones who hold up the process of Progress in our US Constitution. There are now 27th Amendments; Conservatives generally opposed amendment, Liberals supported. And history being what it is, in hindsight, yesterday's Liberal is today's Conservative - because to be an American "Conservative" requires support of our Constitution. However, the Constitution evolves with Amendments. Most dramatically, in the cases of Slavery, Racism, and Sex. In the Past, Conservatives supported Slavery with claims of State's Rights. Subsequently, Conservatives supported Racism with claims of State's Rights. And the constitution had to be amended to stop Conservatives from demanding that an American Woman's Place is in the Kitchen,and not the Office (except as a secretary or stenographer). And Conservatives it was who maintained that Homosexuals are immoral or sick and must be criminalized or converted to "normalcy." Conservatives, William F. Buckley, infamously called Gore Vidal a "queer" on television and made every conceivable argument (without success) to deny Constitutional Rights to non-heterosexuals, and to deny them Due Process Rights, particularly under the 14th Amendments. And this kind of Discrimination continues by invoking the Bible as a part of the American Tradition.But its is a Constitutional fact that our Religious Liberty constitutional provision has Privatized our religious beliefs, and therefore the Bible may not even be thought of as part of the Establishment. Or are you a Conservative advocating for Establishments?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidisestablishmentarianism


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submitting....

Daniel Pipes replies:

I am a conservative who, in the words of the article above, respects tradition while intelligently adapting it to new circumstances.

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Reader comments (85) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1"The Conservatives" (2009) by Patrick Allitt (Yale University Press) [357 words]RobertSep 26, 2018 15:25245072
11669 The Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina & Antidisestablishmentarianism [806 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertSep 14, 2018 11:14244863
1"The Virtue of Nationalism" by Yoram Hazony [224 words]RobertSep 10, 2018 11:23244798
2From "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. (1881) [442 words]RobertSep 4, 2018 13:20244635
Empiricism is not the same as "Human Experience" [325 words]Michael SSep 4, 2018 20:07244635
(Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) [511 words]RobertSep 5, 2018 14:39244635
Who are the "great" philosophers? [158 words]Michael SSep 5, 2018 17:05244635
2The Six Philosophers: Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, Locke, Berkeley, Hume [287 words]RobertSep 5, 2018 21:10244635
1Πλάτων, Σωκρατης, Αριστοτέλης? No? [103 words]dhimmi no moreSep 6, 2018 07:56244635
Greek Philosophy? It's all Greek to me; but Job, Jesus and Shakespeare have given words to live by through the ages [583 words]Michael SSep 6, 2018 18:46244635
Are you a liberal, Robert? I assume you are. [109 words]Michael SSep 7, 2018 02:04244635
Footnote: The etymology of the word Europe [161 words]dhimmi no moreSep 7, 2018 08:28244635
1"The Chemistryb of the Bible" by Michael S. [313 words]RobertSep 7, 2018 15:42244635
1Yes, Greek Philosophy and the West! [96 words]dhimmi no moreSep 7, 2018 16:21244635
Plato, Athanasius and Western Society [457 words]Michael SSep 7, 2018 18:16244635
Plato, Athanasius, Nag Hammadi, Apocrypha, Arianism AND Islam [405 words]dhimmi no moreSep 10, 2018 16:52244635
Athanasius, Schisms and Primitivism [195 words]Michael SSep 11, 2018 01:51244635
1Today's Arianism! [204 words]dhimmi no moreSep 11, 2018 14:01244635
2In Memory of the victims of the 9/11 and we will "Never Forget" [204 words]dhimmi no moreSep 11, 2018 16:45244635
Is Jesus God? or are they two different characters? What does Vital tell us? [884 words]Michael SSep 29, 2018 19:02244635
1Conservative Liberals vs. Liberal Conservatives [354 words]RobertOct 1, 2018 14:18244635
Philosophy, Religion, Homosexuality and Conservatism [1365 words]Michael SOct 1, 2018 16:20244635
1Patriot (American Revolution) [Whigs & Tories] [282 words]RobertOct 1, 2018 21:56244635
Micheal: Maraya Khad Hu! The Peshitta, the Coptic Sahidic Bible, The Christian Arabic Bible and even the Qur'an [231 words]dhimmi no moreOct 2, 2018 07:22244635
Trinitarian excuse [181 words]Michael SOct 3, 2018 01:32244635
Conservatives and Liberals haven't really changed much through time. [819 words]Michael SOct 3, 2018 03:24244635
Michael: Nothing is ever simple and the Syriac word ܨܶܡܕܳܐ [300 words]dhimmi no moreOct 3, 2018 17:56244635
1Michael: Nothing is ever simple and the Syriac word ܨܶܡܕܳܐ Part two [267 words]dhimmi no moreOct 4, 2018 06:44244635
I want your opinion of the Sh'ma [93 words]Michael SOct 5, 2018 01:41244635
2The Yazidi woman Nadia Murad Basi awarded the Nobel Prize [339 words]dhimmi no moreOct 5, 2018 06:27244635
1Michael: ܫܡܥ (Syro-Aramaic) שמע (Hebrew) اسمع (Arabic) Or To Hear [595 words]dhimmi no moreOct 5, 2018 18:10244635
1Non-Simple, but Informative :-) [10 words]Michael SOct 5, 2018 19:57244635
Footnote: The Quranic word al-Samad [301 words]dhimmi no moreOct 6, 2018 07:58244635
Michael: Extant fragments of the NT and OT from the Syriac Peshitta ܦܫܝܛܬܐ or بسيطة in Arabic [26 words]dhimmi no moreOct 7, 2018 13:56244635
Confusion [220 words]Michael SOct 9, 2018 00:20244635
Michael: Nothing is simple! Echad, Khad, Wahid means one as in number one! Samad(a) means Bundle [326 words]dhimmi no moreOct 9, 2018 16:09244635
Muslim, Jewish and Christian views of God, all vs. the Bible. [649 words]Michael SOct 10, 2018 00:30244635
Michael: Ethnocentrism and the religions from the East (Levant, Mesopotamia and Israel/Palestine) [683 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2018 14:25244635
1Who is really جمال خاشقجي or Jamal Khashoqji? Libya, Islamism, the Muslim Brotherhood and US politicians! [245 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2018 06:40244635
1Who is really جمال خاشقجي or Jamal Khashoqji? Was he an Islamist? It seems that he was indeed an Islamist and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood [215 words]dhimmi no moreOct 13, 2018 11:19244635
Who was really جمال خاشقجي or Jamal Khashoqji? And what next? [162 words]dhimmi no moreOct 16, 2018 07:25244635
2Yoram Hazony: Israeli Philosopher, Bible Scholar, Political Theorist, Modern Orthodox Jew [176 words]RobertAug 30, 2018 21:30244497
21567 "A learned commendation of the politique lawes of Englande / newly translated into Englishe by Robert Mulcaster." [332 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertAug 29, 2018 23:07244479
2"On the Nature of Natural Law" by Sir John Fortescue [495 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertAug 28, 2018 08:53244454
1Revolution [642 words]RobertAug 23, 2018 08:34244362
We should not overlook consevatives' anti-semitism [356 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
BorisAug 11, 2018 14:19244185
The Relationship between Conservatism and Liberalism: It's Complicated! [170 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Martin J. MallietAug 11, 2018 09:03244178
Liberalism is doomed to failure [148 words]Michael SAug 21, 2018 21:38244178
Aren't we all 'frogpondians' doomed to failure? [241 words]Martin J. MallietAug 23, 2018 06:33244178
The Word of God, vs. Human Reason, as the sustainer of reality [826 words]Michael SAug 25, 2018 07:56244178
Frogpondians and the Tower of Babel [104 words]Martin J. MallietAug 31, 2018 18:52244178
GO: Collect $200 salary as you pass [404 words]Michael SSep 1, 2018 03:00244178
Frogpondian deformations of faith and the egophanic frogpondian revolt [357 words]Martin J. MallietSep 4, 2018 15:02244178
Where do good ideas come from? [454 words]Michael SSep 4, 2018 17:48244178
Can the wisdom of ages be gained outside the cloud of philosophy? [122 words]Martin J. MallietSep 5, 2018 08:43244178
Petersonian Philosophy, and other vexations [692 words]Michael SSep 5, 2018 16:39244178
Jordan B. Peterson, philosophy, and the Cloud of Unknowing [213 words]Martin J. MallietSep 6, 2018 05:00244178
"Unseen", but very tangible [895 words]Michael SSep 6, 2018 19:38244178
The long goodbye [471 words]Martin J. MallietSep 7, 2018 17:46244178
More on "Where Good Ideas Come From" [452 words]Michael SSep 11, 2018 02:25244178
Liberalism flatters the ego [116 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael SAug 7, 2018 01:14244122
The historical fiction of Irrational Conservatism [242 words]Tom RossmanAug 3, 2018 11:30244064
common law vs Roman law [210 words]John TaylorAug 3, 2018 02:56244056
Sharia Courts. [55 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Reynald de ChatillonAug 3, 2018 01:39244055
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
Phil MondAug 1, 2018 20:26244025
3Man is not governed by reason [89 words]LBFAug 1, 2018 10:16244020
The Natural Law that Governs [113 words]K. JerniAug 1, 2018 02:21244013
Personal Experience [354 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dennis MiddlebrooksJul 31, 2018 12:49244000
1What happened to liberalism? [595 words]JeffAug 2, 2018 17:11244000
It's About Who Will Obey The Law - Liberals or Conservatives - What Were They Taught! [639 words]M ToveyAug 6, 2018 13:55244000
1Dennis: Your understanding is skewed. [434 words]Michael S.Aug 8, 2018 18:35244000
No, your Comments Are Skewed [296 words]Dennis MiddlebrooksAug 9, 2018 15:33244000
Ancient wisdom vs. Modern rationalism [35 words]Michael SAug 10, 2018 08:22244000
Ancient Wisdom Vs. Modern Rationalism [64 words]Dennis MiddlebrooksAug 10, 2018 20:11244000
James Madison [91 words]JeffAug 12, 2018 10:05244000
2What about the article cited? [317 words]LudvikusAug 24, 2018 23:25244000
Liberty, Truly Observed, Knows How to Survive in a Properly Governed Environment [386 words]M. ToveyAug 31, 2018 13:56244000
Conservatism's Structural Defect [286 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
John W HowardJul 31, 2018 12:03243999
1SOME conservatives definitely have "an idea what to do" -- and a good idea, at that [417 words]Michael SAug 8, 2018 13:58243999
the study of history [123 words]rwJul 31, 2018 06:17243992
Philosophies of political thought is important [151 words]Ilbert PhillipsJul 31, 2018 04:52243989
Atta boy ! [45 words]Christopher GameJul 31, 2018 02:56243985
Conservatism v. Liberalism: A Case Humanity Will Never Fully Adjudicate [373 words]M ToveyJul 30, 2018 19:20243978
Liberal democracy leads to inefficient governance. Societies with inefficient governance do not survive. [3 words]Phil MondAug 1, 2018 08:32243978
The most survivable society: Central Africa [226 words]Michael SAug 11, 2018 08:25243978

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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