69 million page views
You're invited: Join Daniel Pipes & MEF on a fact-finding mission
to Poland, Hungary & Austria. For more information, click here

Prophecies concerning Turkey

Reader comment on item: Erdo─čan Leads Turkey to the Precipice
in response to reader comment: Jerusalem Did Not Figure in the Center of the Ottoman Life

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Oct 28, 2015 at 06:54

Shalom Tovey.

Good comments and observations. Just to pick on one,

That being said, does Turkey still figure in the Ezekiel scenario? To be sure, yes it does; since from the time before the Galatians, Turkey, by its predecessors names (and by its prominence in the Apocalypse of John), has been at the crossroads of every major (and probably some minor) territorial conquests and is positione now to be the doormat to the invasion coming to a Israeli neighborhood near Jezreel.

I'm glad you connected the "Land of Magog", in part, with Galatia. This emphasizes the fact that Ezekel meant the term to be taken geographically rather than ethnically, linguistically or in some other sense:

The Galatians overran much of Europe in the 4th Century BCE, and burst into Turkey (the part then called SW Cappadocia) in the early 3rd Century. Josephus called them "Gomer", a name listed among Gog's allies, and historically equivalent to the "Cimmerians" who had occupied Cappadocia during Ezekiel's time. If we were to try to understand the prophecy along linguistic lines, we would have trouble; because the Turks were preceded by the Greeks in that place, the Galatians before them, Greeks and Persians before them; and before the Persians, two varieties called "Hittites" -- the aboriginal "Khirbet Kerak" folk who ruled during the height of Akkadian rule in Mesopotamia; and the Hittites "proper", an Indo-European group that invaded during the days of Noah and his descendants and formed the basis of the Lydian Kingdom of Gyges (Gog) and his descendants.

The name "Lydia" itself refers to Lud, a son of Shem, who probably settled in the area while the Khirbet Kerak "Hittites" lived in eastern Turkey -- or more precisely, eastern "Anatolia"; for this is the ancient and geographical name for the place. LIke the ancient native Lydians, the Khirbet Kerak Hittites may be connected with a Great Flood survivor, namely Heth, a descendant of Ham. Alternatively, "Heth", hence "the Hittites" may have been the name of a non-Noahic people from the region. When the "Hittites Proper" invaded Anatolia, the earlier "Hittites" settled in the Levant -- apparently including some who settled in Canaan Land. Hence, the descendants of Canaan included "the Hittites"; and the latter term may have simply had the geographical connotation of "Anatolians".

Speculating now, I think Magog, a son of Japheth, was an early and prominent settler of Anatolia. I don't think he spoke the Indo-European Hittite language; but that's neither here nor there. What matters is that the land he settled, which we now call Turkey and Anatolia, was probably named after him from a Semitic point of view. Magog is not explicitly located in the Bible; but it's worth noting that all the sons of Japheth settled either in part or completely inside modern Turkey -- from Tiras (Thrace) to Javan (Ionia, around modern Izmir and western Turkey), to Gomer (north-central Turkey, including the capital Ankara), to Meshech and Tubal (in south-central Turkey) to Madai (the modern Kurds, who live mostly in eastern Turkey).

For what it's worth, I've started delving into studying what I call the "three sixes" -- namely the sixth seal, the sixth shofar and the sixth vial mentioned in Rev. 6:12, 9:13 and 16:12, respectively. Because the three "sixes" appear after one another, I at first tried to think of them as succeeding one another. I no longer think this: The breaking of the seals referred to the progressive revelation of the prophecy, which was written on the scroll that John ended up eating; the shofars, or "trumpets" of KingJamesese, were signals announcing the commencement of an event -- like the shofars blown every year at Rosh HaShannah. Finally, the vials are successive "cups of God's wrath". In every case, the breaking of the seal marked the opening of prophecy, the shofar marked the beginning of the crucial events, such as battles; and the vials represent accompanying plagues, calamities, etc. All three "sixes", etc. just show, as far as aI can see, three aspects of the same sequence of events.

Accordingly, it seems that the "1-5s" speak about the Great Tribulation and other events; the "sixes" speak about the final preaching of the gospel into all the world and accompanying events, and the "sevens" speak about the coming/ reeturn (as one's doctrine might be) of Messiah.

I'm falling asleep.

Shalom shalom :-)


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submitting....

Submit a comment on this item

Reader comments (20) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1And the sad part is that Israel will gallop to the rescue [141 words]Anon.Feb 21, 2016 09:01228175
Excellent Analysis [31 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Gary SackOct 23, 2015 11:18226032
1But Washington position is indeed ambiguous [100 words]BorisGFeb 21, 2016 11:00226032
the old lines on the map have run their course [24 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David W. LincolnOct 22, 2015 17:07226014
1EU rescues the sultan.... [215 words]AlexandrosOct 19, 2015 14:39225708
1Demoracy [69 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
IsaacOct 19, 2015 11:03225706
Turkish democracy detailed [154 words]Michael SOct 23, 2015 02:56225706
1EU rescues the sultan.... [215 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AlexandrosOct 18, 2015 21:29225694
Erdogan wants the Ottoman Empire, not Europe [443 words]Michael SOct 21, 2015 13:17225694
Jerusalem Did Not Figure in the Center of the Ottoman Life [289 words]M. ToveyOct 26, 2015 15:49225694
Prophecies concerning Turkey [727 words]Michael SOct 28, 2015 06:54225694
How Far North...Again? [48 words]M ToveyNov 2, 2015 18:46225694
The tyranny of democracy [30 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Vadim AnshelevichOct 18, 2015 01:02225682
not surprised [12 words]krauser robertOct 17, 2015 22:13225680
Support Turkish Seculars and Kurds [214 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
DaveOct 17, 2015 08:56225677
On NATO Expulsion [28 words]DaveOct 20, 2015 20:03225677
erdogan and obama [64 words]DianneOct 17, 2015 00:25225673
Erdogan is no fool [28 words]SunshineOct 16, 2015 21:52225671
Asynchronous development [82 words]George KeselmanOct 16, 2015 20:12225669
Isnt Erdogan a bit like Obama'? [81 words]Jacques HadidaOct 16, 2015 19:43225668

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Prophecies concerning Turkey by Michael S

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

ADVERTISEMENTS

eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2018 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)