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Insurgencies Do Not Follow Democratic Ideals

Reader comment on item: Islam, Israel and Insurgents

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Aug 23, 2011 at 17:01

In Dr. Pipes' post of May 19th, one of the myriad writings of his that address the concerns the west should be wary of on the advancing onslaught of Islamic ideology that permeates just about every discussion on the Middle East, concerning the position that few understand about the posture the American Administrative Executive maintains, he states: 'That departure is not for the better; one line sums up Obama's mistake, where he declares that "The status quo is unsustainable, and Israel … must act boldly to advance a lasting peace." Note how he demands that Israel alone "must act boldly," code words for making concessions to enemies sworn to eliminate the Jewish state.'

This was a commentary on the topic, "Obama's Failed Middle East Speech,' a deftly crafted observation which speaks to the underlying issues now being appraised with differing attitudes long ago raised, but still unresolved, just as the participants of the forum here reflect. But therein lays the dilemma, did the American Chief Executive actually misspeak; or should there be more concern that what was spoken was more to the point of certain ambitions in the Middle East than nominally recognized.

While there still seems to be a desire by some to marginalize certain aspects of the Libyan overthrow as just another in a series of Middle Eastern principalities' reach for 'democracy,' it is yet to be seen or effectively demonstrated how democratic reform and Muslim sensibilities in a societal setting can be reconciled except that certain tenets of Islamic law be relaxed, something most fundamentalist Muslims say is antithetical to the true practice of Islam. The reconciliation cannot be seen in Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq, or in the potential settlement of tensions and murder in Syria. Turkey comes closest, but seriously, Islam is still ruling the heart there.

So what is thought about how the American Chief Executive perceives these things? Let his own position and statement of his views be the guide, irrespective of historical assertions of religious or current political views. Does he resort to his upbringing to guide him, following teachings of his youth, or do we see a more western approach to his dealings with Muslim countries and a defining sense that democracy is the goal to be achieved in places like Tunisia, Egypt, and others. But as can be seen, asserting and inserting American style democracy is not the intent. It is apparent that such change cannot be effectively implemented if the powers that replace the previous governing entities are not so inclined, as can be seen in Egypt, for example.

As for modeling democracy in the Middle East, Hanifa Deen is correct that Israel is NOT the model the rest of the Middle East seeks: just the opposite. If anything, the use of seeking democratic reforms in these cases is a mere tool of controlling power, of taking power from a potentate-style government such as M. Qaddafi's and reconfiguring it to obtain a style of government more in tune with the underlying desires of a different sort, whatever that desire might be. In the case of Islamically influenced ambitions, one can draw their own conclusion. But definitively, an Israeli model is not going to cut it for those who seek redress under the auspices of a 'Palestinian' driven agenda.

The forum presented here, not being able to make an acceptable valid point against the opposing point of view, actually resorts to the fall back position of taking aim against the character of any that dissent, and prove the actual point that discussion of Middle Eastern circumstances will not resolve Middle Eastern crisis issues. Resolution of those issues is coming, but pedantic observations aside, there seems to be little understanding by some that how it will be played out is not readily evident except one understands why it is supposed to happen the way it will.

In reviewing the commentaries of the participants, the inclination of this reader was to go back to the observation made May 19th, to understand that all of what is happening in the Arab upheavals is following a plan; and if one thinks it is a plan not to be followed by American interests, then one did not understand the speech. It is not an American democratic model to be imposed in the Middle East either. What is expected by certain powers that be is a different model of governance to be followed in the Middle East; and that is what the speech was all about.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (46) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Ultimate Self Defense [55 words]CliffordSep 16, 2011 14:23189362
1Doug Cameron is no analyst [60 words]Alan MeyerAug 30, 2011 22:22188981
waste of time I'm afraid [44 words]WallyAug 28, 2011 05:53188915
1Once Again Dr. Pipes Wins with Truth [51 words]Truth TellerAug 26, 2011 21:44188886
3DIASPORA??? [156 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
saraAug 26, 2011 15:35188871
Propaganda [14 words]Amin RiazAug 27, 2011 21:26188871
Stupid argument [105 words]Joe Six-PackAug 26, 2011 09:09188858
DOUG CAMERON: Well, look, I just think if you look at Indonesia, it's clear that Islam and democracy can co exist. [53 words]ygalgAug 26, 2011 07:02188854
4Thank you Daniel [68 words]Baila OlidortAug 25, 2011 15:00188843
Middle East Studies [84 words]Mark D.Aug 25, 2011 01:11188833
Democracy [153 words]Mark D.Aug 25, 2011 01:06188832
re:Israel as a model of democracy [19 words]ygalgAug 26, 2011 16:46188832
Wikileaks [41 words]Mark D.Aug 25, 2011 00:52188829
Islam Can Be Democratic [215 words]Mark D.Aug 25, 2011 00:20188827
1islam and democracy [28 words]ygalgAug 26, 2011 16:59188827
Enemy [18 words]Mark D.Aug 25, 2011 00:14188826
31Moderates where are you? [47 words]AyashaAug 24, 2011 12:18188814
Arab Spring and Israel [281 words]ygalgAug 24, 2011 06:23188806
2A botched up religion [164 words]L. ManoharAug 24, 2011 05:16188805
View ... [155 words]Amin RiazAug 25, 2011 01:11188805
re:Within 100yrs Islam out of all civilzation has created the least violence on Earth. [45 words]ygalgAug 26, 2011 16:34188805
No legitimacy in Islamists' war [314 words]PrashantAug 27, 2011 02:21188805
Failure in Mathematics [13 words]Amin RiazAug 27, 2011 21:24188805
Realm of the Ridiculous [529 words]Amin RiazAug 28, 2011 19:43188805
response to Amin Riaz's "realm of the ridiculous" [592 words]PrashantAug 30, 2011 11:51188805
To A considered reply. [371 words]Amin RiazAug 30, 2011 17:35188805
Islam, Israel and Insurgencies - Discerning True Causes and Effects for Tactical Responses [600 words]M. ToveySep 8, 2011 16:31188805
Welcome to Australian public broadcasting [99 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
HomefrontAug 24, 2011 04:22188802
6Your presence in Australia is appreciated,Daniel Pipes [120 words]MikeAug 24, 2011 03:11188801
8Sorry Daniel [56 words]Elizabeth kajetAug 24, 2011 02:51188798
Passing and Failing [158 words]Jay1Aug 23, 2011 23:47188797
7Apologies [66 words]VarnAug 23, 2011 20:48188794
3Q&A [101 words]DianeAug 25, 2011 00:21188794
1Insurgencies Do Not Follow Democratic Ideals [748 words]M. ToveyAug 23, 2011 17:01188790
1So many answers available... [119 words]Vic LevyAug 23, 2011 17:01188789
4Standing firm [161 words]Rebecca MouldsAug 23, 2011 12:20188742
A useless debate [34 words]Amin RiazAug 25, 2011 00:55188742
2Daniel In The Lions' Den [66 words]Shel_TRAug 23, 2011 11:08188705
4Bewildered by world view of Israel [130 words]Judith GoldmanAug 23, 2011 10:00188684
Naive or Stupid? [105 words]Amin RiazAug 25, 2011 01:02188684
re:Naive or Stupid? [11 words]ygalgAug 26, 2011 16:08188684
1Moderate Revolt, Radicals Reap the Benefits [178 words]Yoel Ben-AvrahamAug 23, 2011 06:45188682
1A Truth of Revolution in the Middle East [236 words]M. ToveyAug 24, 2011 10:59188682
2For the Arab Spring/Israel/Democracy discussion portion: [321 words]DallasAug 23, 2011 06:31188681
6Thank You Daniel [125 words]Robin HenryAug 23, 2011 06:05188680
abc Q and A program [64 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
mike jamesAug 23, 2011 03:48188678

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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