Interviews with Daniel Pipes
American Taxpayers Funding Terror?
Fox News Channel: Glenn Beck
GLENN BECK, HOST: Hello, America. And welcome to "The Glenn Beck Program."
Tonight, is there a Sharia threat to America? No! No, there's not. I guarantee you what you're going to learn tonight is going to open your eyes a little bit. For instance, are we the American taxpayers actually funding terror? Probably. Probably. Are we unwittingly contributing to the destruction of our own Constitution? Yes.
You know, it's amazing to me that we have -- we're good and decent people. And we try to -- we try to be inclusive and try not to be hateful. But we're going to be remembered not as tolerant; we're going to be remembered as morons. We are taking our own country down.
I showed you this before. This is a theory that as soon as -- as soon as Tunisia happened on the 31st of January, I said, "Look out, Tunisia is going to be possibly the Archduke-Ferdinand moment." Anybody remember me saying that? Did you think I was -- I mean, it sounded nuts at the time, didn't it? It sounded, like, it's Tunisia, Glenn. Relax.
And, now, look how it is spread across. And they said it would cascade and sweep the Middle East and begin to destabilize Europe and the rest of the world. The Wall Street Journal reported this week that, yes, indeed, radicals, Islamists, communists and socialists are working together.
In the Middle East -- yes, I know that sounds crazy but it's starting to happen. And we know that it's happening in the West and we know that it's happening here in America. There have been arrests of people who are funding terrorists or working with terrorists and they're from the American left.
But, tonight, I want to show you something else. Tonight, I want to show you a little bit of Sharia and some of the laws that are being passed here in America. And what we're doing to ourselves.
Sharia, every faithful Muslim is obligated to wage jihad. Now, there's a couple of different, two kinds of jihad. There's the -- hey, look at me, I'm not a threat, boom -- jihad. And then there's the other jihad, people will say that it's, you know, a jihad of the soul. There is a stealth or civilization jihad. The stealth or civilization jihad would be like the Muslim Brotherhood, although I contend that they're this one as well.
We've shown you this guy before, Yusuf al-Qaradawi. This guy is the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Qaradawi is rated the ninth most powerful Muslim on the earth. And you might remember some of the lovely things he had to say about the Jewish people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YUSUF AL-QARADAWI, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD: Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the Jews people who would punish them for their corruption. I will shoot Allah's enemies, the Jews.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: But, remember, Muslim Brotherhood, they're changed. They're not like that anymore, even though he's still their spiritual leader. There's something else that he has said that we haven't told you about yet on this program. He said it in 2006. He was talking to the BBC about charity in the Islamic culture. That's called Zakat. Now, here are his exact words on the subject. Quote: "I don't like this word 'donations.' I like to call it 'jihad with money,' because God has ordered to us fight our enemies with our lives and our money."
"Jihad with money" -- that's where we want to start tonight. Jihad doesn't always come in the form of a suicide vest or a plane flown into buildings. There are also jihadists working to destroy America from within, through the economy and through other avenues like infiltrating the justice system or the media, Congress, American culture. It is game on.
Financial jihad is being waged at this very moment against the United States and across the globe to the tune of $1 trillion. If you have ever heard the team Sharia complaint banking or Sharia complaint products, well, let's get into that a little bit. Sharia compliant banking or finance is the practice of ensuring that all monetary matters are in full compliance with all aspects of Islamic law. Transactions must not involve products like pork or alcohol. They have to avoid interest and other things.
But Sharia banking also involves charity or Zakat. Remember we just heard from al-Qaradawi. He likes to call Zakat jihad with money. Why? Well, Sharia requires Muslims to tithe percentage of money to charity. So, Sharia compliant banks and mutual funds are ultimately tithing to charity. OK. This sounds fine so far, right? But which charities are the monies going to? Charities like Hamas or Hezbollah? Well, that's up to the Sharia banking advisers. Who is an adviser for the banks?
Well, there is a bank called Bank Al Taqwa. You're not going to believe who the adviser was -- this guy [pointing to a picture of al-Qaradawi]. That was shut down by the Treasury Department for funding terror groups. Who would have seen that coming? Well, are there other obvious points that maybe we're turning our head to? Islamic banking has entered the United States and other Western nations thanks to banks like Citigroup, HSBC, Barclays, Deutsche Bank and others. It's not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself - until you get down to the Sharia compliant officers. Now, there's one other thing. Are we as a nation the owners of the largest purveyor of Sharia compliant insurance products in the world? Yes, we are. In fact, we bought the company, as taxpayers, AIG. The U.S. government took it over in 2008.
I want to introduce you to a couple of people. First is Chris Holton. He's the vice president at the Center for Security Policy. His organization published a book called, Sharia: The Threat to America. Holton is also the editor of ShariaFinanceWatch.org. And Daniel Pipes, he is the founder of the Middle East Forum, a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of Militant Islam Reaches America.
Great to have you both. Let me start first, Chris, with you, because, Daniel, you really -- you watch over Sharia; and your expertise really is finance, correct, Chris? OK. First of all, do I have it all right?
CHRISTOPHER HOLTON, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: Yes, sir. The only thing I can see you might have left out is the fact that Iran actually dominates Sharia compliant finance in the world.
BECK: But this isn't necessarily nefarious, right? I mean, you could be Sharia complaint and not necessarily nefarious, right? Do you agree with that?
HOLTON: That's true.
BECK: OK. So, why is -- why is Sharia compliant was something we should worry about?
HOLTON: Well, first of all, the whole purpose of Sharia compliant finances is to promote Sharia. And promoting Sharia is something that we shouldn't have here in America because Sharia is the enemy threat doctrine. It is the goal of the groups like al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and Hamas. It is antithetical to everything that's in our Constitution. And in fact, in my opinion, it's the biggest threat to our constitutional rights over the next 25 years in this country.
BECK: Would you agree with that, Daniel?
DANIEL PIPES, MIDDLE EAST FORUM: Well, there are different kind of threats. I mean, China is one kind of threat and Sharia is another kind of threat. But it is certainly a very important threat.
BECK: I mean, behead-you kind of threat. I mean, I think -- do we all not agree that if America fails because we're lazy, or we just can't get our act together, somebody else beats us in fair competition, anybody have a problem with that? No. I mean, that's our fault. We're sloppy and lazy. But the threat of someone coming in and, you know, we have our own problems with our own radicals here in America that are trying to do this and overthrow something. That's a whole different topic. Chris, help me out on the Sharia compliant officers. How are these guys picked?
HOLTON: Well, there's not many Sharia scholars in the world. There's probably only about 200 or so who sit on Sharia advisory boards of Sharia complaint financial institutions. You've got two superstar of Sharia advisory [pictured] up there: Taqi Usmani, who is a former Supreme Court justice from Pakistan. And, of course, Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who is the foremost Sharia scholar in the Sunni Sharia world.
BECK: How much money do these guys control, just these two?
HOLTON: Well, billions of dollars. And they themselves sit on multiple boards, probably get paid 50,000 bucks for each board that they sit on. So, they enrich themselves.
BECK: Qaradawi, he is a guy who is at Muslim university or something here in America or he's on a board in America, right? Still? Do you know what I'm talking about, Daniel? Do you, Chris?
BECK: What is it?
HOLTON: Islamic American University. He was a founder and he was the chairman of the board of trustees. But he has to do it in absentia because he's forbidden from traveling to America because of ties to terrorist groups.
BECK: How is that happening, Daniel? I mean, what are we doing here? I mean, how are -- how do we have a guy who is -- do you think he's a threat to America?
PIPES: Yusuf al-Qaradawi is a threat.
BECK: Yes. So, how do we not know this stuff?
PIPES: Well, he's prevented from coming in the country. But it wasn't the ties to terrorism but it was substance of a book he wrote that the U.S. government found offensive and he was not allowed in, and has not been here for decades, if ever.
BECK: Right. Are you saying he's not, his influence isn't felt here?
PIPES: I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the government is bifurcated. There are some in the government that understand who he is and want to keep him out. And there are others who think that he is the solution to al-Qaeda and the Taliban, that this "moderate" Islamism, this nonviolent Islamism is the solution.
BECK: May I just ask a question: who thinks that, you know, hey, a few people like the Nazis, even though he inflated the numbers, you know, killing the Jews is not violent? Who -- I mean, is there anybody here thinks that just the clips you heard is not violent? How does anyone thinking he's nonviolent?
PIPES: There were Nazis who were nonviolent themselves but they were part of, obviously, a very, very violent machinery.
BECK: But they're Nazis.
PIPES: Exactly. And that's the point here. We're agreeing, that this so-called moderate Islamists are, in fact, part of the same machinery to apply the same Sharia that leads to the same domination of the world. But they themselves are not violent.
BECK: But, wait, wait, wait. I've never said as a spiritual leader or as a human being, or, you know, anytime that I can think of, hey, by the way, I'm just -- seriously, I mean, I'm praying that God is going to give me the strength to shoot Jews from my wheelchair. Who is defining him as moderate?
PIPES: The U.S. government, by and large, sees the Muslim Brotherhood as moderate. It's not the Taliban. It's not out there planning and plotting.
BECK: Chris, what's worse?
HOLTON: He's absolutely right. The Left in the country also seems to have a romantic view of the Muslim Brotherhood as well.
BECK: No, I know that. But I never heard this before. I mean, I know that they're all in denial with the Muslim Brotherhood, but I just thought they shed the -- what was it that Van Jones says -- shed the radical pose for the radical ends. But he's more radical than what he's saying? Is there somebody more radical than what he's saying there? That's pretty radical.
PIPES: Well, as you pointed out before, there are two different ways to apply Sharia. One is through violence. Taliban, Khomeni are the examples. And the other way is working through institutions politically and nonviolently. And, by and large, in the West, if you are in the latter group and you're not engaged in criminal activity or violent activity, you get a pass. Governments and other public institutions, including many television stations, many universities, will say "You're fine. You're OK. It's just talk."
BECK: Chris --
PIPES: So, in some ways, that's more dangerous, because it gets a pass. Nobody gives bin Laden a pass.
BECK: Nobody gives the Tea Party a pass and they haven't said anything! Tell me, Chris, what you are most concerned about here with. Because we looked at -- there is a -- there are several groups. And I don't want to single one out. But there is one that we found that is a hedge fund. It's a Sharia hedge fund and could find some nefarious characters in and around, et cetera, et cetera. But you know what I'm talking about?
HOLTON: Yes, sir.
BECK: OK. But I didn't see anything that necessarily was smoking gun, bad. When it comes to finance, are we missing something we should be seeing?
HOLTON: There's very few smoking guns, as you said. Look, Taqi Usmani is one. Qaradawi is one. But there are other Sharia scholars that have been much more careful of what they've said and what they've written over the years. It's very difficult to figure them out. You can look back at some of the backgrounds of some of these people and you look at where they're educated and you realize that their educators are incubators for jihad.
BECK: Hang on just a second -- Tiffany, do you feel comfortable me saying the name of this hedge fund? OK. Could you remind me of the name of the hedge fund?
BECK: OK. Sharia Capital. One of my researchers actually came over to my house on a Saturday and said, "Glenn, I just found this. And this doesn't seem right." They started looking into it and there's a lot of things in and around. Can you tell me anything -- because there's no smoking guns. But do you agree that there are things in there that are just a little --
HOLTON: Look, the whole problem here is that if you go back to Great Britain to see what's happening in Great Britain, the purpose of Sharia Finance is to promote Sharia. And one of the ways they've basically lulled the British to sleep into accepting Sharia into their society is through Sharia Finance. The archbishop of Canterbury made a statement a couple of years in which he said that British common law is going to have to incorporate aspect of Sharia and it really isn't that big a deal, seeing as we've already incorporated Sharia compliant finance.
This is a Trojan horse that's operating. Now, in terms of that specific hedge fund, look, there is a Sharia adviser on the hedge fund who was educated in a madrassa in Pakistan that is a madrassa that has all kind of ties to jihadists. Now, that doesn't mean that he's a jihadi, but he went to the same school as a bunch of them. So, it's very worrisome.
BECK: All right. Is there can this -- like, for instance, a hedge fund like that. The hedge funds are unregulated. They have -- I mean, wild power with wild amounts of money. There was a Pentagon report that came out recently that said that there are sovereign funds, or huge pools of wealth, that they have seen -- for instance, they almost collapsed on the last one, there's an unexplained amount of wealth being sucked out of the system quickly when we had our financial collapse. And somebody did a report for the Pentagon and said that was unusual. There is something wrong there. And they think that was a test run. Somebody was trying to collapse our system. And they haven't found them. And they're still trying to do it.
Is this something that a hedge fund, the size of the one that you know could do? Is there -- is there something that we as Americans should be looking for, any tell-tale signs? Or is this just something that is saying -- well, they might be giving money to terrorists here? Like that's not bad enough. But they might be funneling money off to terrorists?
HOLTON: This is what I'd say on that. I don't think there is evidence that that particular hedge funds --
BECK: Yes, I'm talking generally. I'm not talking about that particular --
HOLTON: Certainly, the financial jihadists around the world who promote Sharia compliant financing, many of them have motivation to do this. We know Qaradawi hates America. We know Usmani hates America. They've said it. They've written it. They control a lot of money in the Sharia complaint finance world. And then you have Iran. The largest Sharia complaint financial institutions in the world are not these names that we see up here. They're state-controlled Iranian banks. By far, Iran has over twice as many Sharia compliant assets under management as Saudi Arabia. So, these are people and institutions that certainly are motivated to damage America in right circumstances.
BECK: OK. Now, when we come back, I want to spend a little bit of time with Daniel here on some of the things that are happening here in the United States. I just read -- Daniel, it was like last week or two weeks ago, there was yet another judge that said, yes, you know what? Sharia law applies here. That is suicide, America. Wake up to it. Next.
BECK: All right. This week, I have been talking to you about the threat over in the Middle East. And I tell you, I believe -- well, let me ask you. How many people [in the studio audience] have been watching the show and feel that you feel comfortable at least that maybe America is heading down a path where we're on the wrong side in the Middle East? Yes, that's pretty significant. How many people think that, not necessarily by us, but that Israel is being set up? I mean, look at that. We are coddling our enemies at the very best now. We're helping them all over the world. One of the ways that it happens under the radar is with Sharia law. It is a threat to America.
Daniel Pipes is with us. He's the director and founder of the Middle East Forum. He's visiting fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of Militant Islam Reaches America. And with us also is Chris Holton. He's a vice president at the Center for Security Policy.
Daniel, the -- it's amazing to me. And we'll get into the 12th Imam here in a minute. But it's amazing to me how -- I think, five years ago before this economic meltdown started, I was very tuned in to what was happening in Iran and the Middle East. And then we kind of took our eye off the ball because America started having so many problems under George W. Bush and then just kept cascading and haven't been paying attention enough. And I sit here now and think, oh, my gosh, what have people been doing while America went back to sleep? And one of the things is, Sharia law is starting to ugly creep in America, right?
PIPES: People are so focused on terrorism that they don't pay attention to the insidious educational, media, legal and political growth of radical Islam in the West as a whole, in United States in particular. Yes.
BECK: Do you -- organizations, I mean, they are mainstreaming now, the Muslim Brotherhood. Our administration says nothing wrong with the Muslim Brotherhood. Do you agree with that?
BECK: Nothing wrong with it?
PIPES: Do I agree with it? No. Do I agree the administration is saying it? Yes.
BECK: Yes, yes. No. I know. I'm like, Daniel, what's happened? They've gotten to you, man!
PIPES: No, I don't agree with that!
BECK: Yes, OK. What about the organization in America that have been mainstreamed already even by the last administration, CAIR [the Council on American-Islamic Relations]?
PIPES: Great example. CAIR was founded in 1994, as a stepchild of Hamas and has undertaken to promote the ideas of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is the parent of Hamas, in the United States. And it does it very aggressively, but it does it nonviolently.
BECK: Right. But it -- you know, I'm a little -- I'm always a little worried about any organization that fights hard to silence people it disagrees with.
PIPES: It has ties to terrorism. It just itself is not engaged in terrorism. It has plenty of employees and board members have ties with terrorism and apologize for terrorism. It's a dirty organization and it's an aggressive organization. And it has been, by and large, accepted not so much by the government, which has queasy feelings about it, but by the press and the academy, which are celebrating it. I mean, CAIR's ability to get a story is remarkable. It holds a press conference and you've got a story.
BECK: You say that the biggest concern of the creep of Sharia is actually polygamy.
PIPES: I think it's the deepest matter. There are a lot of fronts. But, to me, the deepest of all is the institution of marriage, which, yes, I'm not saying it's always maintained but monogamy is the rule of the land. And look at the Mormons and what the trouble they have with polygamy.
BECK: Right. And they still have in Utah. They still have people -- full disclosure: I am one. But I got one wife, because that's (WHISPERS) plenty.
BECK: But there are still people that have been excommunicated and everything else in these communities.
PIPES: It's dealt hard by the law. In the United States, there is no polygamy acceptable yet but I think it's coming because you can look at the other jurisdictions, like the United Kingdom, or Ontario where it is legal --
BECK: Polygamy is cool -- legal in England?
PIPES: So long that it's contracted in a country where it is legal. So, you have a man and two wives and five children coming from Morocco or India where it's legal. They arrive in Britain or Ontario and they say, "We're here." And the government says, "Fine." And the government in Britain goes further and has different allocations for social welfare for the first, the second wife, the third wife. And if the man dies intestate, then there are special provisions for the different wives, all very legal.
BECK: Wait a second. Just pick up Chris' face here. Chris is just like, so dead. That is so dead.
PIPES: That's profound I think. That's important and I think it's coming our way. We can see it in our own way. Look, here in New York City, a few years ago, there was a major fire and some 11 people were killed with children. Well, it turned out the two families involved were both polygamist families. And it was covered like it was nothing out of the ordinary. The mayor went to visit them, and it was all very normal, of course. Some people are monogamist, some are polygamist. There was no particular --
BECK: Yes. Where you would say, you know, you bring in these people who claim to be Mormons and they're polygamists and the house burns down.
BECK: My gosh, that's a story for a month. It's -- we're almost suicidal.
PIPES: The press is full of puff pieces about men who say, "Well, I was raised in a polygamist household and it was wonderful. I had all these aunties around and I want it, too. And my children love it and the wives love it."
BECK: Is there -- hang on just a second. Is there a guy in here who says, "Man, if I could just have two wives, it would be sweet"? Anybody here? Any takers? Not that we don't cherish and love the one wife! I just can't imagine, you know, talking to one and then having (SQUAWKING NOISE) from the other one. Nuts.
All right. Back in just a second. I want to show you a disturbing tape that has come out of the Middle East this week. And then we talk to the audience, in a second.
BECK: We are back with Daniel Pipes and Chris Holton and a studio audience. Talking a little bit about Sharia law and what is coming. And I want to spend a minute here with a tape that we've shown you earlier this week. And it is about the 12th Imam. The 12th Imam, about -- I don't know -- seven years ago I started reading up on.
And Daniel, have you read the Hadith, Chris?
BECK: OK. Daniel, you've read the Hadith, obviously. When I -- when I first started looking at this, I thought, wow, this guy really looks like somebody went on opposite day and read the -- you know, John the Revelator and read the Book of Revelation and said, "Hey, let's just make this story end the opposite way." And the anti-Christ by John the Revelator seems to have a lot of the same earmarks that the 12th Imam does. The video that you're seeing on the screen is a video that was made by the State of Iran that is saying that the 12th Imam is here. The chaos is all part of his return. First of all, do you agree with the take that it -- he has a lot of the -- it's like opposite day with the Bible?
PIPES: Definitely, the Koran plays off the Bible. There's no question.
BECK: No, no. I mean, the Hadith -- the way he's described by the 12ers that he comes back and the moment that the world is washed in blood, it is chaotic, then he makes everybody submit. You don't, he chops your head off. I mean, it's -- the parallels from the book of Revelation to the 12th Imam in the Hadith, as they interpret it, he is the anti-Christ. Have you ever heard that before?
PIPES: Well, there's actually a technical term in Islamic eschatology for the anti-Christian. It's called ad-Dajjal. So that I think is the precise person who you're thinking of.
BECK: No, no.
PIPES: There are common features here.
BECK: Yes, I'm saying that the roles are reversed. Does anybody know what I'm talking about here? The roles are reversed. What Christians believes is the anti-Christ, he has all the earmarks of the 12th Imam. And the one they say is the Dajjal has all the earmarks of like - I don't know - us.
PIPES: I think the really important thing here is that Ahmadinejad and a number of others at the highest levels of the Iranian government really believe this. And I think that's of enormous importance.
BECK: When Ahmadinejad said this week in this tape that he has been selected by the 12th Imam to be the ruler over Iran that destroys Israel. I don't hear this reported anyplace, really. I mean, no mainstream is on -- you know, you don't see Brian Williams saying, " ... And looks like the 12th Imam is going to crawl out a well and come back." Why?
PIPES: Yes. It's implausible to so many Americans that it doesn't get reported. But it is vividly important to the leadership in Iran and it shapes their policies. This is not some abstract --
BECK: So, do you believe Ahmadinejad actually believes he's talked to the 12th Imam? And -- you do, Chris?
HOLTON: Absolutely. When he was mayor of Tehran, he had the boulevards -- the main thoroughfares widened so that the Mahdi could come and land.
BECK: He'd have to have a big car.
HOLTON: Absolutely believes it. Absolutely believes it.
BECK: Do you believe he believes it? That he has spoken to?
PIPES: I don't know if he has personally spoken to, but the 12th Imam and end of days are imminent [in his mind]. And his actions are --
BECK: Will hasten it.
PIPES: -- in the course of --
BECK: When he says, "Oh, Allah, help me hasten the return of the promised one," I'd like to ask both of you what does that mean to him?
HOLTON: Well, I believe Ahmadinejad thinks that needs to take action to hasten this event.
BECK: Which would mean -- which would mean?
HOLTON: It obviously -- I think of the Iranian nuclear program when I think of that. And the possibility that Iran could do something, you know, horrible.
BECK: But it's just -- but it is also just chaos, isn't it?
PIPES: Right. And that's where the nuclear weapons come in. Because if you want to create chaos, win or lose, whatever that means, using nuclear weapons brings chaos. And I think that's part of the attraction of nuclear weapons is that this is a tool for imposing chaos like nothing else.
BECK: I was made fun of by bringing up -- because I don't know. You know, I'm a Christian and I don't know when Jesus is coming back. I have a lot of Jewish friends and I say -- I've made a pact with them. "Look, both die, we get up to the pearly gates and the Savior is there and he's like hey, I haven't been to Earth yet. You vouch for me. If he's like, I'm just about ready to go back, I vouch for you."
And I have no idea when -- when he's coming. But it's always kind of a good idea just prepare. His -- how many -- how many people are Christian here? OK. How many people -- how many people think that a lot of the things -- and I know it's happened a million times. I mean, the apostles were saying, oh, Jesus is going to be right back. He just went to go get a sandwich and stuff.
So, how many people here believe that this feels like a time that you haven't experience in your lifetime? [Show of hands] That's a little disturbing. Let me go to John here in the front. And we go back to Sharia and it's open to anything you guys want to talk about here. Go ahead, John.
JOHN: My question is, do you think that the application of Sharia law in a U.S. court by an American judge should be an impeachable offense?
BECK: I do. Chris? Daniel?
PIPES: I'm with you. Yes, I think it's outrageous. And it's happening ever more frequently, Just a couple of weeks ago in Florida, as Glenn mentioned. And there was a notorious case in New Jersey and there have been a bunch of cases around the country where judges are repairing to Sharia and saying between Muslims and a mosque, altercation or some other circumstance, the Sharia is our guide. That was a notorious case.
BECK: Well, let me -- hang on just a second. Before I -- maybe I'll ask you where we can -- how we can stop this. But let me go to Richard. Where are you, Richard? Up here. Because you have a great example here.
RICHARD: Is it similar to how the Amish are treated in the courts? There's a separate judicial or a separate disparity between Amish law and say American law?
PIPES: What is acceptable is that individuals can make agreements among themselves to follow a civil law that is different from the prevailing one and it's not offensive, it doesn't contradict anything. These are done all the time.
What's not acceptable is that, say, that the Amish want their law to be applied to everyone else. And that's what we're seeing with the Islamists. They want their law, Sharia, apply to everyone. It's offensive. It's on the offense. It's aggressive.
And as was mentioned before, both the archbishop of Canterbury and the lord chief justice in Britain have endorsed this. Well, Britain is different from us, but it's not that different. And if that can happen there, it's not so implausible for it to happen here.
BECK: Back in just a second.
BECK: We're trying to kind of have a refresher on some of the things that are happening to our country with Sharia law and some of the things that are going on around the world. Back with Daniel Pipes and Chris Holton. And I want to go to Harry from Connecticut? Harry?
HARRY: Glenn, the country of Turkey is 99 percent Muslim. To this day, the Turkish government has denied committing genocide against the minority Armenian Christians back in 1915 when 1.5 million were massacred. Is this not an example -- the first example in the 20th Century of jihad against Christians and Sharia law -- using Sharia law? And is it something that we ultimately need to worry about if Sharia law gains a foothold in America?
BECK: Who wants to take that one? Daniel?
PIPES: That one's a good one, a tough one. I don't think I would call it jihad as such. It was murderous. It was massacre. It was genocide. But I don't know that it was jihad as such because the point of jihad is to spread the rule of Islam. It's not to convert people. It's not just to kill people. It's to spread the rule of Islam -- the rule and therefore the law of Islam. The Ottoman Empire in 1915 was already Muslim and, therefore, there could not be a jihad within the Ottoman empire. It wasn't technically possible. So yes, it comes out of superiority of the Muslims versus non- Muslims. It comes out of the aggravations of war. But I don't think, technically speaking, you can call it jihad.
BECK: OK. Hang on. Chris, help me out. Because Daniel just said that Sharia is for the spread of Islamic rule. Right?
BECK: OK. But -- so then what is -- how does that work with Sharia finance because isn't that -- isn't that kind of to spread it and also -- Sharia to spread to get everybody to live under Islamic rule?
HOLTON: Sharia finance was a concept that was invented in the 1930s which was supposed to insulate the Muslim world from the West. And now, we have the other side of the coin and they're using it an imperialistic way to infiltrate the West.
BECK: Do you both believe -- I have to take a break -- but do you both believe, yes or no, that the goal of Islamists is to have a global caliphate?
BECK: Yes, OK. Back in just a second.
BECK: I want to actually -- Jeanette is in the front row of our audience. And we were talking before the show started and she has a question. But I actually would rather ask you a question. You've been watching the events of the world unfold recently. I can't imagine how it must feel as a Jew seeing the radicals all start again, the communists and the socialists and the jihadists all around the world. But let me ask you this. In World War II, Jews had some place to run. And I've only got a couple of seconds. Do you feel there's some place that is protected?
JEANETTE: You know, we used to think that Israel was it. But Israel is also surrounded by --
BECK: Everybody --
JEANETTE: -- terrible, powerful enemies.
BECK: All right.
JEANETTE: And now, the only friend that, you know, the Jews could at least, you know, count on is no longer -- I mean, in my opinion, is no longer there.
BECK: All right. America, this is what I said earlier this week. First of all, you have to know exactly what you're up against and what you believe. And then check what side you're on. God will not hold us unaccounted for. He will account for each one of us. And I don't believe in collective salvation. Barack Obama's not going to be standing next to me at the judgment seat.
You better -- you better figure out the difference between good and evil and stand up. I can't imagine what it feels like to be a Jew today and there's got to be a safe haven. It has always been America. It should remain that way and if it doesn't, we're in more trouble than I thought we were in. And I thought we were in a lot. Back in a minute.
BECK: I want to thank you for watching this week. And I want to thank you for listening and being there. And actually trying to figure things out. I urge you to do your own homework. I urge you to get involved and stand together with like-minded people.America will survive. Freedom will survive as long as good people stand up. From New York, good night, America.
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