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If only it were pork and wine alone ...

Reader comment on item: Talking Turkey

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Dec 26, 2012 at 14:54

Dr. Pipes wrote :

>Islamic practice, not Islamic law, is the goal, my interlocutors told me. Hand chopping, burqas, slavery, and jihad are not in the picture, and all the less so after the past decade's economic growth which empowered an Islamically-oriented middle class that rejects Saudi-style Islam.<

The Turks say marvelous things and if one believed them, one would have to wonder why any bad opinions pop up about Turkey at all?Everything is fine and if it isn't, it will be. Just trust the Turk!

But let's see at what the Turks are trying to persuade us to believe in. No Islamic law, no jihad, no hand chopping, no burqas, no slavery - just "Islamic practice". And what is it?

Most foreign jihadists caught and killed in Chechnia were Turks . Turkey was officially described in one report as "a record breaker for producing foreign mercenaries in Chechnia", many of them with excellent military training in the Kemalist Turkish army and much experience after fighting jihad in Bosnia and Kosovo. They had even an "Ottoman platoon" there. It is reported that 'Turkish jihadi websites have actually been posting the martyrdom epitaphs of Turkish fighters who died in the Chechen cihad. Much of the jihadist rhetoric found on these Islamist sites will be familiar to those who follow the martyrdom obituaries of foreign jihadis who have died fighting in Kashmir, Iraq, Afghanistan and other conflict zones.' The popularity of these websites is incontestable. The one I came across on YouTube without doing much search was viewed more than 107 000 times(!).

Further, do honor killings for which Turkey is so (in)famous belong to the innocent-sounding 'Islamic practice' ? Turkey by far leads the world in honor killings as every second murder in Turkey is an honor killing. One woman dies every day for the sake her Islamic family's "honor". One comes across harrowing cases of girls being buried alive or stoned in Turkey.

Turkey is also notorious for early and forced marriages as well as for domestic violence , including wife beating. And contrary to what Turks keep telling us this practice is not resticted to remote parts of Anatolia but thrives also among Turks living in Germany. Polygamy is widespread in Turkey too - contrary to the official tale. But it is again no Islamic law , is it ?

As to slavery and trafficking in human beings which a form of modern slavery an official US website said in 2008 :

"Turkey is a significant destination, and to a lesser extent, transit country for women and children trafficked primarily for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation. This year, five men were reported trafficked from Turkmenistan for purposes of forced labor. Women and girls are trafficked from Moldova, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Romania for sexual exploitation. This year, three victims were reported trafficked to Turkey from outside of Eastern Europe and Eurasia—from Morocco, Tunisia, and Sri Lanka. Some victims are reportedly trafficked through Turkey to the area administered by Turkish Cypriots for the purpose of sexual exploitation."

Another report writes :

"On account of this unique geographical characteristic Turkey is both a transit and
destination country.Having illustrated relevant aspects to trafficking in human beings (THB) in Turkey it is necessary to assess the principal trends, which are sex trafficking (sexual exploitation), forced labour, body parts (organs) trafficking.

Turkey plays a very significant role for organ trafficking."Turkey is a major junction in the trafficking of illicit organs... The whole business would be unimaginable without the Turks"

If one looks at Islamic Ottoman history - sex slavery , forced labor, kidnapping children and other acts of barbarity and cruelty were very respectable Islamic practices in the good Ottoman days teh Turks are so eager to restore. Even the countries of origin of today's slaves and victims are the same as in the days of Mehmet II or Suleiman the Magnificent .

It seems therefore that there the interrelation between Islamic practice and Islamic law is as strange as it is close. The Kemalist state forbids you to live according to Islamic law , so you live according to Islamic practice. Then the state grows gradually "liberal" allowing you to do more and more of your favorite Islamic practice and you discover that it is identical with Islamic law. First, you wear no headscarf because heads are cut off for wearing it, then you discover you may wear a little headscarf, then a bigger one and finally there is just a little step to wearing a burqa. First you practise honor killings or force the infidel girl to commit suicide(it's safer and more Romantic), then you proceed to stone and bury alive her and one day hand chopping comes as a natural addition to your daily Islamic practice. First you have one wife then more. First you visit your local brothel which is not unlike the old Ottoman slave market, then you find out that giaours have not just women to abuse but also organs to make money on. First , you think Turkey is modern, moderate and liberal, then you discover that the difference between the Islamic Republic of Turkey and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan or Iran is not as fundamental as you officially assured your Western interlocutor.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (35) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
RISE OF EVIL [162 words]UGUR KURTMay 23, 2014 05:20214969
Talking Turkey [13 words]Angel OterosJan 10, 2013 10:06202561
3What Turkey must do to be consdiered democratic [282 words]AlexandrosJan 5, 2013 22:43202438
4Turkey doesn't care. [221 words]IanusJan 7, 2013 14:15202438
3If this is true [68 words]AlexandrosJan 8, 2013 04:59202438
4The crimes of Turkey [128 words]dhimmi no moreJan 8, 2013 07:57202438
3The Turkish snake sloughing off its Kemalist skin [383 words]IanusJan 11, 2013 13:49202438
3What exactly are Turkish Secularists Smoking? [187 words]D. A. MacKAYDec 28, 2012 21:52202094
4One Thousand and One Nights of Turkish Secularism [291 words]IanusDec 30, 2012 18:21202094
4Misplaced optimism and liberal Turkey [78 words]ShishirDec 28, 2012 05:33202035
4erdoğan [518 words]havasDec 28, 2012 04:28202027
4" people like ianus ..." [190 words]IanusDec 30, 2012 17:41202027
9Delusions [598 words]dhimmi no moreDec 31, 2012 07:19202027
4greece [180 words]blablaJan 4, 2013 13:40202027
7Turkish barbarity as loud and sickening as ever [546 words]IanusJan 7, 2013 13:36202027
6Turkish propagandists have no shame [702 words]dhimmi no moreJan 7, 2013 17:15202027
2gulen cult [36 words]HalikarnasJan 7, 2013 17:37202027
8Someone has mentioned Gulen's agenda [136 words]IanusJan 8, 2013 19:13202027
1what do you pretend [66 words]imjDec 27, 2012 12:54201985
1Talking Turkey [138 words]Nazim CairoDec 27, 2012 10:06201979
5sharia [146 words]havasDec 27, 2012 09:48201977
13Best Mortadella! [594 words]dhimmi no moreDec 28, 2012 06:17201977
5Turkey and Islamists [84 words]shantDec 27, 2012 08:47201974
4"The young Turks," Iran, Egypt--do they want to restore Caliphate? [255 words]Richard StoeckerDec 27, 2012 08:07201971
2Talking Turkey [3 words]Steven LDec 26, 2012 22:59201951
3"Islam as it is lived in Turkey is stultified, riddled with hypocrisy, ignorant and intolerant of other religions' presence in Turkey" [470 words]IanusDec 28, 2012 10:39201951
And it doesn't take American Express... [36 words]M C ErtemDec 26, 2012 18:25201945
4A road to Damaskus...of sorts. [70 words]RitaDec 26, 2012 17:56201942
turkey and eu [267 words]havasDec 28, 2012 05:08201942
9If only it were pork and wine alone ... [884 words]IanusDec 26, 2012 14:54201935
3evil turks [92 words]havasDec 28, 2012 05:23201935
3On evil Turks, a lamb with human face born (and burnt) near Izmir and Icelandic semantics [468 words]IanusDec 30, 2012 05:53201935
5Crimes of the Turks against humanity [129 words]dhimmi no moreDec 30, 2012 07:00201935
Location is everything [27 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEJan 2, 2013 12:17201935
Sounds Familiar [21 words]WilksDec 26, 2012 12:37201929

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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