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"Talking without knowing" - A good title ... as long as you're the talker

Reader comment on item: Insight into Obama's Middle East Policy?
in response to reader comment: talking without knowing

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 1, 2009 at 08:32

yasemin erkut wrote :

>First of all, Turkey hates nobody.<

I just wonder how many Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Bulgarians, Arabs, Iranians or even Georgians would share this statement?

Turkey does hate anyone who is fed up with "Ne mutlu turkum diyene", barbarian Turkish history, with this servile abject personality cult of Ataturk - the mass murderer, with Article 313 of the Turkish Penal code, with Turkish militarism that overprivileges the few modern janissaries and pashas and leave the bulk of the population in poverty, with the police arbitrary rule , censorship ....

> We had more than enough experiance to know that it's the governments who decides on political and military relations with other countries. So who ever you come across on the streets in Turkey and ask, he/she even the children will say that he/she does not believe in USA Politics. This is the result of experience. <

What's your point here? People in the streets hate America but the good Turkish politcians are eager to hide the fact from the naive yankees?

>Iraq is our neighbour. We see what the usa soldiers are doing to the women, children by person and mass destruction as well.<

You don't care about Iraq or the Arabs whom every Turk despises. It's Iraqi Kurdistan that is a thorn in Turkey's eye. After murdering c. 30 000 Kurds and expelling 300 000 from Eastern Anatolia in the 80-ies and 90-ies (which no Turk protested against) , the Turks are funky now that they see a Kurdish state established there. Who did it ? The USA, so who is to hate - the USA of course! It's so simple for the Turk. And the Turkish mind operates on a very primitive, instinctive level.

>No western community has seen those pictures that we had seen about this war. We see because we can. There is no censorship here.<

"No censorship" in Turkey!!! It's the best joke I have heard since last April Fool's Day!


"According to the PEN association of writers, about 60 publishers, writers, and journalists are under judicial process in Turkey. Many are charged with the crime of "insulting the Turkish state." "

"Turkey ranked 101 in Reporters Without Borders' 2007 Annual Worldwide Press Freedom Index."

" It doesn't take much to get your Website banned in Turkey. Pretty much any complaint to a lower court can get a Website blocked in the country. Websites including YouTube, DailyMotion, Alibaba, Slide.com, and some Wordpress blogs have all been banned, usually because of some purported slight to the Turkish government or Mustafa Kemal Ataturk."


>Besides about 85 years ago we had to fight nearly all the European countries to save our country. <

Nonsense! You used one country to fight the others. So Enver Pasha used Germany to beat Russia and carve a Pan-Turkic Empire of her ruins. Then Kemal used Lenin's Russia to defeat the Greeks. He used the French and Italians and American - whom he hoodwinked with his infamous Chester concession hoax - to counterbalance the British and finally they have used the Americans to protect themselves against the Soviets and after the fall of the USSR they engaged in the scramble for Turan...with lamentable results in Karabakh.

>That was a war and we won.<

You? What were Frunze and other Soviet advisers doing in Kemal's hordes then?

> It's finished. We hate no country.<

It's not finished. There are no finished genocides and your so called Turkish republic has been erected on two genocides - of the Armenians and the Greeks. Turks hate both as every murder would hate the survival of his slaughter. Besides, the wild and erratic views Kemal imbued Turks with impose a superiority feeling towards every non-Turk. "Ne mutlu turkum diyene" means also "Hateful who is no Turk!", doesn't it? If it didn't then why not say "Ne mutlum kurdum diyene"?

>There are no enemies or friends to us. If we are strong enough every country behave friendly, if we are weak, than most of these western and even mouslim countries behaves as enemies. That is all. We have learned it by hard.<

You Turks have always been aggressors. You have enslaved and humiliated most civilized nations and states in your barbarian past. When they pay you back with the same coin, you protest and play the innocent persecuted virtue! But your neighbours and many other do know you well enough. You're wolves in sheep's clothing and must be treated as such!

>We live in such a strategically important geography that we are never left on our own. In the history, if one country helped us that was not because they wanted us to win, it was only because they did not want the other country to win. We had always had the pressure of the western governments to fight against Russia, Soviets or Iraq.<

You were never aggressors, you never conquered Baku in 1918, never slaughtered the Bulgarians in 1876, have never had anything to do with the Armenian genocide , never dreamt of conquering Austria, Hungary, the Balkans, Poland , Russia ...No, it's always the bad other states that intrigue against the Sublime Porte or the Sublime Turkish Republic...Who do you want to fool with these fairy tales?

>And we had to save the Turkish people in Cyprus from geoncide, <

Aha...another genocide the good Turks thwarted in the last moment! You're always saving somebody...acting always altruistically...are never to blame. The others plan genocides and perpetrate them .... You brave Turks appear in the very last moment to conduct a counter-genocide which you duly deny then... An infentile story for the infantile Turkish mind!

>and we had this right by the agreement between Greece, Great Britain an Turkey. <

Then why did Greece have no right to stop you? Wasn't it the all American military might that was on Turkey's side in the summer of 1974 that gave this right to Turkey and denied it to Greece?

>Those days Turkish people were being killed by Greek people of Cyprus.<

It's another of your tales! Nobody saw that whereas the atrocities of the invading Turks were public. No one in Turkey or America protested though to stop the massacring and looting Turk.

>England did not care, so we decided ourselves and saved Turkish people in Cyprus from being killed.

You didn't decide anything. It was Henry Kissinger that organized eveything for you , including the stupid information in the New York Times that a Soviet-Turkish Axis was in the making if America protests so as to silence any voice of common sense and decency.

>And because of that usa punished Turkey by ambargo.<

To save appearances and appease Brezhnev. The Soviets got very angry at that time.

> Did not sell any weapon for years.<

Turkey had enough weapons. Besides, all the heavy equipment used against the Greeks in Cyprus was made in the US. I saw a documentary on that.

>We were not surprised at all, expecting this anyway. <

It was part of the plan.

>So in short we do not depend on any country at all. Westerns think we are Mouslims, Mouslim countries think we are not real Mouslems.<

And the Turks are of course "secularists", are't they? I saw your "secularism" in Germany - a land where the Turks can manisfest freely how good "secularists" they are. And they do that with worst obscurantism, Islamic fanaticism, medieval mindset, despise of the host land and its people, totally failed integration!

>Our neighbours depend on western countries so do whatever they say, to benefit from the results. So were Greece in our country on the behalf of England during the first world war.<

Turkey was independent of Germany during that time, wasn't she? After all no Turk would treat a kafir German as his equal, would he?

>As I told before, not only USA, we never depend on any country.<

You have always depended on somebody and have always despised your benefactors. Turks are incapable of gratitude. I do hope the moment will come when both the US and Israel realise it's time to abandon the perfidious Turk and stop playing his game! You'll see what revolutionary results it will bring to your racist backward Moslem monoculture!

> There is good relations as long as we are strong. So we don't hate, we simply know. All we want is peace in the world and peace in the country. That is all.<

You want no peace. You want Turkish domination, a new Ottoman power, a pan-Turkic Empire. You oppress the Kurds, destabilize the Caucaus, intrigue in Central Asia, conduct a widespead espionage and subversive pan-Turkic propaganda in all Turkic regions of Russia. Your 3 mln minority in Germany is a disaster for this land, a fifth column of Turkish jihad waged under the banner of "secularism". Kemalism is an oppressive system as Stalinism was for Russia.

>All refugees are always wellcome to Turkey. We keep them all, give shelter and food. During second World War, Jewish proffessors, common people came to Turkey.< May be we are the only country that had never any problems with Jewish people and Israel.<

Oh, how fine it sounds and how dismally it is contradicted by history !

> Also one cannot get lost in comforting happy talk and ignore the chronic, grinding Antisemitism, and vestiges of dhimmitude to which the Jews in Turkey have been subjected throughout the history of modern Republican Turkey-including the large, government organized Thracian pogroms of 1934, and the blatantly discriminatory, deliberately pauperizing varlik vergisi taxation scheme and subsequent deportations of Jewish business leaders to "Turkish Siberia," during World War II (WWII). This ongoing discrimination contributed to the rapid exodus of 40% of Turkey's Jews after WWII to Israel within 2 years of its creation, followed by the steady, continuous attrition of the Turkish Jewish population -- their departure accelerating again after the notorious Istanbul pogrom against Greeks, Armenians, and Jews in 1955-so that only 17,000 of Turkey's 77, 000 post-WWII Jews remain. <


>But we are very much against their killing Pllestinian people, women, children, hundreds and hundreds dead, thousands wounded. This is pure barbarism. This does not mean that from now on we are enemies to Israel. It means we will be always careful.<

Double talk again! You have a serious problem to admit that your Moslem brothers are the real source of trouble in Israel and that Israel conducts a desperate defencive struggle against these gangsters and brutes and rascals!

And what this circumlocution "we will be always careful" should mean? You Turks are moslems and always be and for every Moslem it holds that in a conflict between a kafir and a Moslem he will ALWAYS support the Moslem. It's hard to hide one's sympathies for friendly Moslem terrorists, isn't it?

>It is not good to talk on limited knowledge.<

Right! See my title!

> We are a seventy five million people living by ourselves.<

A third world regime with megalomaniac ideology of self-glorification and American weaponry.

>Trying to improve our civilisation in knowledge and professions.<

"Turkey" and "civilization"...somehow the two terms don't match. In European languages "Turkey" has always been a synonym of "barbarity". And there are good historical reason for this identification.

> And there is war all around us. Not easy, believe me.<

Indeed! You rant all the time about how peaceful and innocent you are and look around you and see everything contradicting this self-proclaimed innocence! Truth is hard, particularly for a Moslem who cannot stand anything but the self-glorifying myth he or she has been brought up in.


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