2 readers online now  |  69 million page views
You're invited: Join Daniel Pipes & MEF on a fact-finding mission
to Poland, Hungary & Austria. For more information, click here

Islamic arguments get lost in frivolity

Reader comment on item: Tectonic Shifts in Attitudes toward Israel
in response to reader comment: Guiding the perplexed our dear Raul and Muhammad converted to Judaism! I'm not kidding! What a disaster

Submitted by Prashant, Jan 10, 2019 at 22:18

Dear Dr Pipes,

Is it possible to have a seemingly logical but actually absurd discussion about things? Many dialogs between Alice, and other characters in 'Alice in Wonderland' fall in this category; they make sense but then they do not quite make sense (example: 'Begin at the beginning,' the King said gravely, 'and go on till you come to the end: then stop.')

When I read the arguments of Islamic 'scholars' defending Islam, I get the same feeling: their arguments make sense but they do not quite make sense. Dhimmi No More pointed us to a hadith in which Islam's prophet vacated a seat on which he was sitting and placed the Torah on that seat. This was at a time when he was being asked to do justice to a Jewish couple involved in fornication. In this process according to the hadith the prophet said a few good words about the Torah (I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.)

What should be the biggest question/issue related to this incidence in the study of morality/religion or history? Ideally none. But if you still want discuss it, the best possible thing to conclude from this episode would be that the prophet of Islam was trusted by people around him so much that even Jewish people came to him to seek justice. That would be in a reasonable world but not in the Islamic wonderland!

In Islamic scholarly questions about this episode are: Why did Muhammad show respect toward the Torah if he also believed that it was a corrupted word of God? Did he convert to Judaism by showing respect toward the Jewish book?

Any reasonable person will keep a book on a seat and not on ground. Case closed. Polite people say nice things about all scriptures. Case closed shut. But not in Islamic wonderland!

Islamic scholars take a very different approach. First they discredit the hadith and say that it came from unreliable sources. Wow! if the truth shows that Muhammad showed some respect to a different religion, then it better be a lie! Go figure. And the argument does not end just there. Those scholars who are willing to admit that the above incidence is truthful say that when Prophet uttered the respectful words toward the Torah, he was not referring to the Torah at hand but to the "true Torah" that was revealed by God to Moses. So under no circumstances Prophet is allowed to utter a nice word toward the scripture of other religions.

Frivolity is not always bad but I think Muslims fall prey to not looking at the true intended message behind an incidence and to focusing on the literal meanings. That harms them. This entire message of mine will be useless in the context of any other religions. For example, no one cares how any one of 330 millions Hindu gods acted at different times of their life times (we discuss very high level issues like whether a king owes more loyalty to his wife or to his kingdom; this issue we have been debating for the last 5000 years!).


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submitting....

Submit a comment on this item

Reader comments (42) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Enemy of my enemy is my friend [323 words]AnonJan 12, 2019 15:25247113
What Zephaniah Said About Zion: Tectonic Shifting Comes Later [227 words]MToveyJan 7, 2019 17:12247027
1Are Arab-Muslims really warming to Israel? [335 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Raul MarksJan 1, 2019 17:00246931
Guiding the perplexed our dear Raul! [108 words]dhimmi no moreJan 5, 2019 09:05246931
Our dear Raul and the latest in the strange world of Indian and Pakistani Muslims [119 words]dhimmi no moreJan 5, 2019 11:33246931
Fact checking DNM regarding Q930 and Q931 [177 words]PrashantJan 7, 2019 22:38246931
1The author of the Qur'an claims that the Jews are polytheists! No I'm not kidding [283 words]dhimmi no moreJan 8, 2019 15:00246931
Christians are polytheists [67 words]Raul MarksJan 8, 2019 19:05246931
Guiding the perplexed our dear Raul! Part 2 [743 words]dhimmi no moreJan 9, 2019 15:50246931
4Guiding the perplexed our dear Raul and Muhammad converted to Judaism! I'm not kidding! What a disaster [316 words]dhimmi no moreJan 9, 2019 16:08246931
Dear readers: Our dear Raul tell us why is polytheism bad and why is monotheism bad! [35 words]dhimmi no moreJan 9, 2019 16:11246931
I'm embarassing myself? [5 words]Raul MarksJan 9, 2019 22:58246931
Our dear Raul: Muslims are polytheists and pagan! [328 words]dhimmi no moreJan 10, 2019 06:02246931
Our dear Raul and Isiah 42! The top subject discussed by every tablighee and his cousin! [27 words]dhimmi no moreJan 10, 2019 06:58246931
1Our dear Raul is asking: "I'm embarassing (sic) myself"? Yes you are! [73 words]dhimmi no moreJan 10, 2019 16:11246931
1Our dear Raul al-tablighee your prophet needs help! His brand of monotheism was refuted by the Jews and the pagans with Mecca! What a disaster [106 words]dhimmi no moreJan 10, 2019 16:34246931
1Islamic arguments get lost in frivolity [520 words]PrashantJan 10, 2019 22:18246931
Touche [13 words]Raul MarksJan 11, 2019 00:04246931
Our dear Raul and argument from "yous" and "tho"! You need to stick to Urdu And the Islamic comedy goes on and on [140 words]dhimmi no moreJan 11, 2019 16:45246931
The genius Raul is quoting the Bible which means that he disagrees with his Allah astaghfirullah! [180 words]dhimmi no moreJan 11, 2019 17:00246931
Guiding the perplexed our dear Raul and Muhammad converted to Judaism! I'm not kidding! Part two [81 words]dhimmi no moreJan 11, 2019 17:22246931
Our dear Raul and the Quranic disaster that Jesus is the "word" and "spirit" of Allah [233 words]dhimmi no moreJan 12, 2019 08:10246931
Our dear Raul is not aware of Mark 12:29 and the God of the Christians is One! [97 words]dhimmi no moreJan 12, 2019 08:16246931
3Prashant: Sunan Abi Dawood is all Ahadith Sahiha! [214 words]dhimmi no moreJan 12, 2019 08:37246931
Our dear Raul and more Quranic disasters: Allah can have a son! What stops him? He does not have a girl friend! [224 words]dhimmi no moreJan 12, 2019 11:12246931
Our dear Raul wrote: "Christians are polytheists" His Allah says in Q5:17 that Christians are monotheists! What a disaster [121 words]dhimmi no moreJan 12, 2019 12:32246931
1Why can God be both alive and dead and at multiple places at the same time [66 words]PrashantJan 12, 2019 16:06246931
Our dear Raul repeats the same nonsense written in Tablighee web sites! And what is better than quoting a Kafir writer! [89 words]dhimmi no moreJan 13, 2019 09:55246931
Our dear Raul and the tablighee question: "Which one is the correct Bible"? [234 words]dhimmi no moreJan 14, 2019 17:18246931
Prashant: The Qur'an says that the OT is not corrupted! Attention: Our dear Raul and our dear Robert! [205 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2019 12:07246931
Our dear Raul: Every tablighee and his cousin are wondering: Which sect of Christianity is the correct Christianity? [94 words]dhimmi no moreJan 16, 2019 12:07246931
Absurdity of Islamic theocracies [255 words]PrashantJan 16, 2019 19:52246931
Not Brazil! [120 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dan SchwartzDec 31, 2018 20:57246918
4Leftists in India are no different from leftists everywhere else [420 words]PrashantDec 28, 2018 17:06246839
Intersectionality seems to be a factor. [133 words]David HoffmanDec 28, 2018 13:14246830
Which comes first, intersectionality or anti-Semitism? [43 words]Paul RothbergJan 7, 2019 08:50246830
or eternally shifting sands? [69 words]Rea1ityCheckDec 27, 2018 22:49246808
1Muslims in Europe are keen on having Western countries turn against Israel [59 words]Anon.Dec 27, 2018 20:02246806
Two more reasons for for the tectonic shift of the left towards Israel [68 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
stan sujkaDec 27, 2018 08:37246794
1Social media may be what is causing the Left to get isolated [420 words]PrashantDec 27, 2018 20:27246794
First there was hatred of Israel, then came the Palestinians [88 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Andrew SchonbergerDec 27, 2018 00:15246785
1Two Muslim worlds - two attitudes towards Israel. [65 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ephraim LiorDec 26, 2018 23:42246784

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Islamic arguments get lost in frivolity by Prashant

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

ADVERTISEMENTS

eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2019 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)