69 million page views

Corroborating Ancient Texts to Synthesize Ancient Meanings

Reader comment on item: How Fares Western Civ?
in response to reader comment: Tovey: Prolegomena ܦܫܝܛܬܐ or Peshitta. Ancient texts and translations/interpretations

Submitted by M Tovey (United States), Aug 6, 2020 at 18:52

DNM;
This strikes deep into the heart of the matter for this observer, answering a decades old circumstance of trying so hard to understand: why has religion been so hard to understand? The undercurrent to this dilemma for this reader started in youth while under tutelage for things Biblical that did not make sense for the reason that the teachers barely understood what they appeared to be teaching. This was not made any easier when contemplating Marx's posit about theological things: 'religion is the opiate of the people.'
Long ago, when the question was posed about what language did the people of the Roman Empire speak, much was submitted to underscore the opinion of the individual who was making his assertion as the more likely reasonable answer; but opposing opinions were just as compelling, if not vehement in the contravening argument. Of such, apparently, was the scholarship of your expert Biblical linguist, George Lamsa. I am sure that my memory of those assertions that much of the New Testament writings were Greek, the single exception of the teaching in my youth that Matthew was in Aramaic, apparently since the tax-gatherer Levi was local to the region where he met the Nazarene and such a conclusion was not hard to take.
Your assistance in providing the comparative texts from Arabic to the Peshitta has solved several issues of contention for this reader, that the rivulet of truth which appeared for so long to be a problem in both the mortal and eternal realm is now in view; and the ambiguity of how translations issues are frustrating to the purpose of reaching into the heart can be comprehended.
Even the recollection of yours that Lamsa's work was controversial calls back the issues discussed in decades old attempts to intellectually discern how to embrace what the Scripture was trying to tell hapless religiosity; issues were diffused to logical processes of interpretation instead of getting to the meaning that reached the heart. It is in the heart where the Scriptures are to be written, not in the mind. This is where 'Western Civilization' and its culture misses the mark; why the current battles for control of society(ies) will not end well for the majority of mankind.
Now, when we read some of the contention in the validity of an Aramaic translation in taking the message of the Hebrew Holy Writ from its ancient times, and the attempt to say it is a preferred advancement of the Gospel as opposed to the koine Greek (supposed as the lingua franca) of the region, even this lent/lends to the issues of following the commandment of the Savior in Matthew 28 to proclaim His Gospel due to the opposition of virtually all other religious endeavors, including within the Christian community, which by the third century AD was showing intentions of phasing out the Semitic influences of the original Gospel.
But this issue is not isolated to the New Testament. For example, what language did the son of Hebrew's prophet Daniel speak when still living where he was born; then what did he learn when in captive exile? One contention is that paleo-Hebrew was native; that (western_Imperial Aramaic was taught in exile, which is supposed in the old Testament book of his name.
So, here is the question, how is the following translation found in the Peshitta, from Aramaic or Hebrew:
1فِي السَّنَةِ الثَّالِثَةِ مِنْ مُلْكِ يَهُويَاقِيمَ مَلِكِ يَهُوذَا، ذَهَبَ نَبُوخَذْنَاصَّرُ مَلِكُ بَابِلَ إِلَى أُورُشَلِيمَ وَحَاصَرَهَا. 2وَسَلَّمَ الرَّبُّ بِيَدِهِ يَهُويَاقِيمَ مَلِكَ يَهُوذَا مَعَ بَعْضِ آنِيَةِ بَيْتِ اللهِ، فَجَاءَ بِهَا إِلَى أَرْضِ شِنْعَارَ إِلَى بَيْتِ إِلهِهِ، وَأَدْخَلَ الآنِيَةَ إِلَى خِزَانَةِ بَيْتِ إِلهِهِ. 3وَأَمَرَ الْمَلِكُ أَشْفَنَزَ رَئِيسَ خِصْيَانِهِ بِأَنْ يُحْضِرَ مِنْ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَمِنْ نَسْلِ الْمُلْكِ وَمِنَ الشُّرَفَاءِ،
Or:
1مِنْ نَبُوخَذْنَصَّرَ الْمَلِكِ إِلَى كُلِّ الشُّعُوبِ وَالأُمَمِ وَالأَلْسِنَةِ السَّاكِنِينَ فِي الأَرْضِ كُلِّهَا: لِيَكْثُرْ سَلاَمُكُمْ. 2اَلآيَاتُ وَالْعَجَائِبُ الَّتِي صَنَعَهَا مَعِي اللهُ الْعَلِيُّ، حَسُنَ عِنْدِي أَنْ أُخْبِرَ بِهَا. 3آيَاتُهُ مَا أَعْظَمَهَا، وَعَجَائِبُهُ مَا أَقْوَاهَا! مَلَكُوتُهُ مَلَكُوتٌ أَبَدِيٌّ وَسُلْطَانُهُ إِلَى دَوْرٍ فَدَوْرٍ.

Since this lends to this observer's own contention that 'Western Civ' does not have it right, a discernment is required and, again, your insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

Reader comments (104) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Dear Dr. Pipes [293 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Debanjan BanerjeeAug 9, 2020 23:20259890
Why the Real Savior Stands Out from the Rest of the West [474 words]M ToveyAug 10, 2020 14:28259890
4Our dear Debanjan al-Tablighee! His prophet was a white, yes white, man who owned slaves and married a 6 year old girl? [572 words]dhimmi no moreAug 10, 2020 14:49259890
1Our dear Deb is either unaware or he was hoping that we kuffar don't know that Muhammad was a WHITE man! [167 words]dhimmi no moreAug 10, 2020 14:58259890
1Our dear Deb: Is it true that Muhammad was a white man who owned slaves and married a 6 year old girl? What a disaster [131 words]dhimmi no moreAug 10, 2020 16:45259890
2Our dear Deb whose ,prophet is a white man, is a kafir as per his Suuni brothers! [53 words]dhimmi no moreAug 10, 2020 16:51259890
6Our dear Deb is not aware that his prophet was a WHITE dude and he worshiped stars which in idolatry! [175 words]dhimmi no moreAug 12, 2020 07:37259890
4Our dear Deb! Mass conversions of Iranians to Christianity and Bishop Hassan Rouhani? Sobhan al-Masih! [167 words]dhimmi no moreAug 13, 2020 08:24259890
Hello Debanjan from the idol-worshipping West [160 words]JeffAug 13, 2020 17:13259890
1Our dear Debanjan and speaking of "Idolatry of the highest order" [296 words]dhimmi no moreAug 13, 2020 19:45259890
3Our dear Debanjan, whose so called prophet was a WHITE man, is a نصاب وغلباوي [206 words]dhimmi no moreAug 14, 2020 09:40259890
1Our dear Deb and Arab racism directed against Indians and Pakistanis [156 words]dhimmi no moreAug 17, 2020 08:23259890
1Debanjan Banerjee blatant hypocrisy [286 words]PrashantJan 26, 2021 21:15259890
Western culture [308 words]AktAug 3, 2020 12:49259817
Judeo-Christianization of World Values Not Proximal to Societal Failures [573 words]M ToveyAug 5, 2020 18:15259817
1Capitalists don't actually care about science, its why they never teach Marx [142 words]cwAug 3, 2020 09:51259814
Is Multiculturalism a product of Western civilization? [96 words]Vadim AnshelevichJul 20, 2020 23:45259692
Questioning Roman Basis of Western Civilization - True Basis of Law [574 words]M ToveyJul 22, 2020 19:36259692
Akt [172 words]Colonialism is equal to plunder & lootJul 19, 2020 21:02259676
Thank you [95 words]Barbara Schmidt-RunkelJul 19, 2020 12:06259675
1God as Rational Creator is a Jewish, Not Christian Idea [173 words]Liz WagnerJul 19, 2020 10:31259674
1Liz Wagner: There is nothing rational about the Semitic Gods! [782 words]dhimmi no moreJul 20, 2020 15:43259674
To Whom Was The Almighty Originally Revealed [455 words]M ToveyJul 20, 2020 15:48259674
Liz Wagner: The Western Mind and Skepticism [456 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2020 07:40259674
Why Mortal Humanity Does Not See: Cannot Recognize the Eternal Sovereign [738 words]M ToveyJul 21, 2020 16:40259674
Tovey: Reading old texts, myth and meaning! [136 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2020 06:45259674
Defining 'The Meaning of Life in Western Culture' [592 words]M ToveyJul 23, 2020 17:26259674
Tovey: KMT and Kemi and old civilizations [631 words]dhimmi no moreJul 25, 2020 06:35259674
Western Culture as a Mimic of Ancient Cultures [1096 words]M ToveyJul 25, 2020 22:27259674
2Tovey: Arabic and Syriac Primer [152 words]dhimmi no moreJul 27, 2020 07:44259674
response to L Wagner and Dhimmi NM [519 words]JoeRuJul 27, 2020 16:25259674
Rendering Salvation Messages in Coloquial Terms [299 words]M ToveyJul 27, 2020 22:10259674
Boys and girls: We have another "scholar": Our dear JoeRu "Islamic Rhetoric" and lots of Shish Kabab, Falafel and Hummus [276 words]dhimmi no moreJul 28, 2020 07:02259674
Our dear JoeRu صلى الله عليه وسلم and his kafir-phobia and Yazidi-Phobia! Absolute shame [523 words]dhimmi no moreJul 28, 2020 08:25259674
Our dear JoeRu and Free Will v Predestination [244 words]dhimmi no moreJul 29, 2020 07:43259674
Our dear JoeRu: Holy books are not books of science or psychology! [180 words]dhimmi no moreJul 29, 2020 08:00259674
Tovey: The Peshitta [226 words]dhimmi no moreJul 29, 2020 15:25259674
Anthropological Reasoning of Deity - Finding the True God [653 words]M ToveyJul 29, 2020 18:43259674
Common Comprehension of Shared Inquisitiveness [99 words]M ToveyJul 30, 2020 21:05259674
Recovering Roots of Theocratic Rule [924 words]M ToveyJul 31, 2020 20:36259674
Dhimmi no more & Muslim converts [18 words]AktAug 1, 2020 08:30259674
A chat with our dear Akt from India! [335 words]dhimmi no moreAug 2, 2020 06:58259674
Revisiting our dear Akt post and teaching one tablighee at a time [287 words]dhimmi no moreAug 3, 2020 06:35259674
Understanding Competing Contentions of Theocracy [383 words]M ToveyAug 3, 2020 18:11259674
Dhimmi no more [167 words]AktAug 3, 2020 22:08259674
Tovey: Arabic, Syriac, Persian, Sanskrit and Urdu, yes Urdu [485 words]dhimmi no moreAug 4, 2020 16:49259674
6Akt and Mother India [274 words]dhimmi no moreAug 4, 2020 17:37259674
Connecting with the Heart and Not One's Mind [519 words]M ToveyAug 4, 2020 20:03259674
Tovey: Prolegomena ܦܫܝܛܬܐ or Peshitta. Ancient texts and translations/interpretations [247 words]dhimmi no moreAug 6, 2020 07:09259674
Corroborating Ancient Texts to Synthesize Ancient Meanings [687 words]M ToveyAug 6, 2020 18:52259674
Tovey: Prolegomena ܦܫܝܛܬܐ or Peshitta. Thoth, Plato, Greek, Aramaic and Matthew 27:47 [535 words]dhimmi no moreAug 7, 2020 17:42259674
Tovey: Prolegomena ܦܫܝܛܬܐ or Peshitta. This an addendum and the word: Lmana in Matthew 27:46 [12 words]dhimmi no moreAug 7, 2020 17:47259674
Why the Cross was Excruciating [612 words]M ToveyAug 10, 2020 19:22259674
Why? The Hope Beyond Despair [386 words]M ToveyAug 11, 2020 16:01259674
Tovey: Matthew 27:46 and Psalm 22 [323 words]dhimmi no moreAug 12, 2020 06:28259674
Theology Fails to Explain Religious Exegesis [558 words]M ToveyAug 12, 2020 16:32259674
Tovey: Reading Old Texts, Plato and Thoth revisited. [617 words]dhimmi no moreAug 13, 2020 18:16259674
Modern Philology – Differing Prolegomenas for Differing Approaches [513 words]M ToveyAug 16, 2020 21:32259674
1The problems of the Qur'an as a literary text! Persians, al-Kalam al-Mukarrar and the Mountain! [859 words]dhimmi no moreAug 18, 2020 08:03259674
Typo [24 words]dhimmi no moreAug 19, 2020 07:51259674
Transitioning from Western Language to Eastern Understanding [615 words]M ToveyAug 19, 2020 18:13259674
1Appreciating Being Able to Understand [97 words]M ToveyAug 19, 2020 23:29259674
Tovey: Aramaic the mother "Lishon" (Tongue), St Ephraim, the Qur'an is a lectionary? [577 words]dhimmi no moreAug 20, 2020 18:02259674
4Tovey: Timeo hominem unius libri! Western Skepticism and the Islam's "do not ask questions"! [300 words]dhimmi no moreAug 21, 2020 10:26259674
It is Written - When the Spoken WORD Became the Written WORD [406 words]M ToveyAug 22, 2020 12:37259674
Echoes of the Ancients Telling Israel's Future Out of the Ashes of Western Civ. [236 words]M ToveyAug 23, 2020 23:55259674
Tovey: The crossroads of Arabian imperialism: Muslim Mobeds, Aramaic the language of the people on earth, and the outcome in 9th century Mesopotamia [335 words]dhimmi no moreAug 26, 2020 06:59259674
Covey: Sitz im Leben? Virgil's Aeneid [85 words]dhimmi no moreAug 26, 2020 07:09259674
1Covey: St Thomas Aquinas and the dilemma of the single book! [340 words]dhimmi no moreAug 26, 2020 08:35259674
Compounding Dilemmas of Divergent Understandings [261 words]M ToveyAug 26, 2020 20:57259674
Distinguishing the Basis of Ambition for Shiite Controlled Ummah [149 words]M ToveyAug 27, 2020 02:25259674
1Islam, skepticism, Orthopraxy, Monotheism v Polytheism, and the "three stones"! [461 words]dhimmi no moreAug 27, 2020 17:26259674
A Practice of Belief or Works to Gain Righteousness [707 words]M ToveyAug 28, 2020 22:28259674
The bogus claim that prophet Quthm aka Abul Qasim aka Ahmad aka Muhammad is mentioned in Isiah 42 [720 words]dhimmi no moreAug 31, 2020 16:48259674
Prphetic Originality of Isaiah 42 [489 words]M ToveySep 7, 2020 15:39259674
Isolation and Alienation - Collateral Issues of Peace [378 words]M ToveyOct 2, 2020 15:25259674
Western Civ's Last Surviving Chance at ME Peace in Question [277 words]M ToveyOct 25, 2020 19:47259674
Finding a Connection from After the Islamic Prophet to Present Day Expectations [34 words]M ToveyJan 21, 2021 21:41259674
Tovey: Sunni Islam and al-Mahdi [305 words]dhimmi no moreJan 22, 2021 17:13259674
1DNM: Good to Know; Much Appreciated [63 words]M ToveyJan 25, 2021 20:27259674
Allan Bloom [54 words]Barry TigayJul 19, 2020 09:12259673
1550-1700 built on previous scientific work, but nevertheless revolutionized perceptions of the scope of science [420 words]MalcolmJul 19, 2020 08:59259672
Incisive and compelling review. [19 words]JohnJul 18, 2020 22:20259670
Clash of Societies in Advancing Social Civilizations [458 words]M ToveyJul 18, 2020 21:19259668
2Non-Western ok, Anti-Western not ok [434 words]DaveJul 18, 2020 15:17259665
Ultimately, it's against the God of the Bible [75 words]Michael SJul 26, 2020 09:53259665
5Wonderful Observations on Western Exceptionalism! [299 words]RobertJul 18, 2020 12:17259663
Our dear Robert you need to explain to us what are you talking about? [563 words]dhimmi no moreJul 20, 2020 18:02259663
Our dear Robert earned his صلى الله عليه وسلم [165 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2020 06:38259663
Our dear Robert earned his صلى الله عليه وسلم and the Arabic alphabet is borrowed from Syriac/Aramaic alphabet [278 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2020 14:50259663
Our dear Robert صلى الله عليه وسلم Here is a link about the profound influence of Syriac/Aramaic on even the language of the Hijaz [42 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2020 14:57259663
2Nuggets of wisdom from no other that our dear Robert! [325 words]dhimmi no moreJul 22, 2020 06:26259663
2Dr Pipes, Here is the hadith that was quoted by Biden! The man is clueless! [377 words]dhimmi no moreJul 22, 2020 08:31259663
Definition of Semitic by Merriam-Webster for Dummy No More [234 words]RobertJul 22, 2020 14:02259663
3Dr Pipes, Here is the hadith that was quoted by Biden! Is Biden calling for declaring Jihad? The man is clueless Part 2 [582 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2020 10:49259663
Our dear Robert صلى الله عليه وسلم:The father of Algebra was a Greek from Alexandria! How come you did not know that? [363 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2020 15:55259663
Our dear Robert and the Hindu Genocide! [95 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2020 16:00259663
2Our dear Robert the long version! And the hater and racist is you! [804 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2020 17:41259663
Our dear Robert and the Quranic Trinity is a disaster! [396 words]dhimmi no moreJul 24, 2020 06:54259663
slight correction [29 words]dhimmi no moreJul 25, 2020 05:36259663
Question for our dear Robert and our dear Raul and Isiah 42! Two for the price of one [150 words]dhimmi no moreJul 25, 2020 10:30259663
1Good point [42 words]KephaAug 6, 2020 21:06259663
1Kepha: Mary the sister of Aaron! Attention our dear Robert al-Tablighee [161 words]dhimmi no moreAug 8, 2020 06:20259663
2Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Tucker Carlson on Biden promoting Jihad? [165 words]dhimmi no moreAug 12, 2020 07:58259663

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)