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Turkish vs Arabian imperialism

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: To Ianus: Turkish vs Arabian imperialism

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Mar 9, 2007 at 19:18

Dear Plato , you wrote :

"He (Kemal Pasha) allegedly fought Islam but no one else did so much to make Turkey a virtual Moslem monoculture "

> Here was a man who went about systematically destroying many of the outward manifestations of Islam, especially with an Arabian flavour to them.

These facts were exaggeratedly acclaimed in the West. The fundamental things were willingly ommited.
One problem was that objectively speaking Islam most benefited from his genocidal policy directed against all non-Moslems in Anatolia.
The other problem was that his war against Islam was no matter of principle. Its origins were accidental. It manifested itself as a private revenge that due to the absolute power attained by Mustafa Pasha looked like a struggle between good ("secularism" a la Mustafa Pasha ) and evil (Islam). And it wasn't that of course.

The outward weakening of Islam served the strengthening of Muastafa Pasha's personal power and did no real harm to the cause of Iaslam as now it was the only religion of Turkey , something in purity comparable only ibn Saud's Arabia. Mustafa Pasha fought Mehmet VI out of fear that if if didn't beat the caliph the caliph would take revenge on his disloyal and insubordinated army inspector. And then his severed head would most probably adorn a gate in the Sarail palace.

And as the caliph personified Islam, so Mustafa had no choice but to order his fanatically Moslem Anatolian soldiers to fight their previous "shadow of Allah on earth" (as once the caliph was officially called) and all its minor shadows. They did it only because they believed that Allah had sent a new "ghazi" a better caliph to them. They had no idea what "secularism" stood for. So relying on Moslem fanatism Mustafa built his own religious personality cult and tried futilely to dismantale the old deen. His slaves looked on him as a new shadow of Allah on Turkish soil.

> What of Islam was left?

99% of population confessing Islam !!!! Something which has never existed before in spite of the most rabid Islamization policy.

> Just the rituals?

Deep faith which expressed itself in the fez dispute which is unjustly ridiculed by the Western authors and which showed that the new "secular" caliph could depose the old Osman caliph but it was impossible to persuade his tyrannized subjects that they should voluntarily get similar to kafirs.

> Did he issue any call for jihad to further the Islamic empire.

And his pan-Turkism? What was it if not a jihad without using the name? He condemned Enver Pasha for his adventures in Turkestan (Small wonder !Mustafa Pasha was Lenin's first ally) but later started dreaming of re-creating a Pan-Turkish empire. His "secular" successors after the fall of the Soviet Union took up that dream.

> He sounds to me more like a Turkish imperialist (as you yourself noted) rather than an Islamic one.

The difference between the two is hardly discernible to me. Both ways lead to the same end -Islam's supremacy. The means and people may look different.

And , dear Plato, Kemalist "secularism" is in the long run doomed for failure. In a country with 99% Moslems external re-Islamization is just a question of time. Internally it's a Moslem society.

>> I have never attached much significance to such superficial things, dear Plato. He changed not only the alphabet but also the language ......to be proud of what they are as they are the most ancient nation on earth. They come directly from the Sumerians and the Hittites ! ..."

> Reading that para, one does not see the Ataturk trying to carry forward the Islamic agenda of the Prophet.

He had an incidental dispute with one of the prophet's successors , so he willy-nilly was forced to carry out his own agenda against the legal caliph. It was an erratic agenda of course. The task of returning formally to the Islamic world has already been taken up by his successors.

>>> "were only cosmetic changes and just a sort of camouflage to fool the rest of the world.

> >I would never never try to to dismiss the conclusion as irrational."

> From what you have put forward previously it does look as though he was trying to camouflage his Islamic agenda. But clearly he seemed to have had a rather a clear Turkish agenda.

Being Turkish without being Islamic is rather a strange combination to my mind , althought what Mustafa Pasha's mind thought was held as a self-evident and sacred truth. You can't make a Moslem nation secular only because you can kill anyone who may remind you of the hard statistics. Mustafa Pasha tolerated no opposition , no arguments. No discussions were possible with him. No statistics worked with him. Woe if someone angered him by appealing to his reason ! Those who knew him were all afraid of his whims and his wrath.

To all his slaves (he introduced civil laws but was bound by none as he had many killed sometimes for jokes) he was a new sultan and a new caliph. The anecdote I told you reflects a general opinion. They followed him as their religious upbringing told them the caliph is always impeccable and infallible even if he fights their own faith. He was always right otherwise Allah wouldn't have allowed him to expell and exterminate the kafirs. Submission (=Islam) was a way he used to force his tyrannical and often irrational decisions through. And his decisions and thoughts were listened to like ayats , absurd as they might have been in themselves.

When it turned out e.g. that his genocidal policy , exterminating the Greeks and Armenians who produced most things necessary for everyday life , brought Turkey on the verge of economic ruin, he staged large-scale show trials against alleged "opposition" and those who obstructed and failed to implement his wise decisions. As a true Moslem he never admitted any mistakes.

>>."And now thinking about Islam I couldn't resist the impression it is a sort of intellectual infantilism , a collective regression in mental development of mankind..."

>You have described the Muslim thinker to perfection. Regressive thinking to end regressive thinking. The Koran is immutable to the last full stop. All knowledge is encapsulated in its 114 surahs.

>> "Are you referring implicitly to ordinary Moslems , dear Plato ?"

> I know you dislike the example of the Nazis but I think it is appropriate here. You cannot have explicity blamed all Germans for Nazi crimes though implicity you could.

I would blame all those gentlemen who thought out and enforced with guns and ultimatums as their final arguments the treaty of Versailles , for the crimes that followed as a direct result of the failed peace. I can't see anything comparable to the treaty of Versailles in the history of Islam.

>Just as all Catholics cannot be blamed explicitly for the Inquisition though implicitly you could.

Well, being catholic exposes you to many temptations. But your Christianity works against those temptations.

>> "I find the Europe analogy quite unsatisfactory and misleading while dealing with the Moslem world. We have never produced anything comparable to Islam."

> Ianus, please remember that I am not a professional historian but these are some statements and figures I have gathered:

> The destruction of the World War I & II, secular events, but European: Estimated dead around 15 million & 50 million. Atlantic slave trade: around 18 million dead . And some secular and others religious casualties: Thirty year war, Napoleonic wars, French religious wars together about 15 million. Stalin 20 million.

> As you say the analogy is probably unsatisfactory but the deaths seem quite comparable.

> Indians of the Americas was, far and away, the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world." David E. Stannard, American Holocaust: the Conquest of the New World (1992) page x

We Europeans have admitted that and coped with it best we could in accordance with our knowledge and consciousness. I personally have no problem with those things. We have investigated those cases, we have written plenty of books on the subject. We have discussed them openly. We have looked for the reasons. We have regretted the consequences. This gives a good testimony to our culture and morality , if I may moralize for a moment.

Now look at the Moslems who are the most vocal in finger-pointing and denigrating us and our ancestors and our civilization! No Moslems will ever admit the crimes committed by Muhammad (have you read the last post by our Moderate Muslim?). Can you indicate a single Moslem study on the crimes committed in the name of Islam? A single sermon condemning the crimes of the rightly-guided caliphs ? Can you indicate a significant Moslem public opinion condmening the atrocities committed against the kaffirs in the name of Islam ? This gives a telling testimony of what sort of "civilization" we are confronted with at the moment.

>>"....Christianity has never developed this deadly self-defence mechanism to that horrible degree. That's why it was possible for us to wake up from the Christian hypnotisation. It's not possible to awaken from the Islam hypnotisation."

> You say 'to that horrible degree'. I agree, all disparities in human behaviour, collective and indivdual are all matters of degree.

I meant Christianity as a system of power and social control has never developed and perpetuated mechanisms making sure it will never lose its power and control over the collectives it dominated. In other words you could criticise Chrsitianity without losing your life immediately as in Christianity you have i.al. the commandment "Thou shalt not kill".

> That is why categorically ruling out that Muslims can be dehypnotised is questionable.

Is it ? What punishment awaits you for 'ridda' ( denying the validity of Islam) ? Other Moslems will not ostracise you. They will kill you on the spot as it is the law of Islam for which you'll be rewarded in the hereafter if not already here.

>> "I was surprised by your insistence on the innocence of moderate Islam ....It runs counter to what Islam was , is and will always be all about ."

> I believe I have never talked about moderate Islam. Yes I have talked about moderate Muslims.

What a typically Western distinction! You imply people are more important than ideas. It applies no doubt to our humanistic culture. But transferring it so simply onto Islam it's highly risky. In the East an individual is nothing. The collective is all and the religion(deen) is sacred and infallible and most tyrannical.

> Islam is what it is, it cannot be changed. Muslims are human beings and their mental states can be changed like any persons.

Provided they can be separated from Islam and all too numerous Moslem killers. Isolate them and there is a chance they will apostasize. As long as they remain Moslems there is no hope. They will always backslide into what they were brain-washed into.

> They can be persuaded to interpret their religion differently.

Differently ? How do you mean that ? They will invent un-Islamic Islam like Islamo-democracy and Islamo-humanism or what ?

> You probably think that is an impossible task.

Actually , I do.

> That is where we part ways.

I just wonder where your way leads to ? What sort of new Islam are you trying to conjure up?

>> "Given the perversion of ideas and meanings practised by Islamic semantics , Moslems mustn't think there is anything wrong with their Allah-inspired paranoia. On the contrary, all is fine and positive in it as the obligatory laudatory vocabulary of Islam insinuates."

> That is something interesting you say. It means it is possible to interpret Islamic teachings to mean what they did not originally mean.

All things are possible. Only the probability that all will happen is so damn low, dear Plato.

> Islamic semantics has inspired the paranoia and the vocabulary of Islam. Can the semantics not be reworked to domesticate Islam from its wilder manifestations?

By whom ? By Moslem scholars of the traditional school or those trained at the US universities sponsored by Saudi millions or by kaffirs ?

> It does seem to have happened when the Mutazilites prevailed for a brief time in Islamic theology.

Aren't you too optimistic about your Moslems , Plato ?

> Ianus, I find it difficult to reconcile some of your statements among themselves:

I am not a pope and the privilege of infallibility doesn't belong to me. I am perfectly aware I may be wrong on many points. But I suspect that you as a typical Westerner project too much of your own culture and Enlightenmant mentality into the Muslim mind. I contend that it is a risky procedure that may lead you astray. It gives nurishment for your optimism but it doesn't work simply because the Moslem mind doesn't belong to our cultural environemnt. It is constructed and works according to a totally different civilizational blueprint , if I may put it so.


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1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
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dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
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The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
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easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
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Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
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noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
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your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
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Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
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2Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
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poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
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skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
ALARMING NEWS - POLYGAMOUS MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS ARE WELCOME IN US WITH UP TO FOUR WIVES [211 words]Sofa SogoodMar 14, 2007 14:4586290
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
ONCE AGAIN MODERATE, THE KORAN CONTRADICTS YOU [172 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 17:0885330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077
NOT ANTI-SEMITIC [177 words]moderate muslimMar 7, 2007 17:4279077

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