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Of Maps and fatalities
Reader comment on item: My Testimony before the House Subcommittee on Israeli-Palestinian Negotiations
in response to reader comment: Visit this site...

Submitted by Fred Schlomka (Israel), Mar 4, 2007 at 05:14

The maps and some information of the Jewish Virtual Library site are a bit dated. A more up-to-date map can be found at: http://www.fmep.org/maps/map_data/west_bank/west_bank_separation_barrier_july_2006.html

Even this map is not entirely accurate. I drove a US official half way across the West Bank yesterday going directly East from Kfar Saba past Qalkiliya. The security fence cut deep into the West Bank at Qalkylia, completely surrounding the town before heading NE. We drove all the way to Rt 60 which heads south to Ramallah and Jerusalem without encountering the fence. Thus the land i was driving over within the West Bank has open access from Israel but no access was possible from Nablus or any areas to the north of the fence. This area is much larger than is indicated on any map I have seen, official or not

The site you recommended was interesting. The text included:
"In fact, a fence already surrounds the Gaza Strip "
Demonstrating that Gaza has become a captive and imprisoned territory, completely surrounded by Israel's authority on land, sea and air. This has been the fate of all the heavily populated areas of the West Bank also. Even where the security fence is close to the Green Line, Palestinian towns and areas on the East of the fence are surrounded by secondary fences restricting the peoples' movements. These fences are not shown on any official maps but restrict the movement of both Palestinians and Israelis. When I have meetings in some areas of the West Bank I have to resort to the same passage as Palestinians, often taking taxis over dirt trails to circumvent the Israeli blockades. It's a mess, and it's not creating peace on the ground, for Israelis, or Palestinians.

Regarding ongoing violence. One has to realise that while Palestinian violence against Israelis has decreased over the past two years, Israeli violence against Palestinians continues unabated, and generally underreported in the media. For instance Yesterday I passed near a settlement notorious for its 'Hilltop Youth' (heb. נוער הגבעות -Noar Ha'Gvaot), gangs of Jewish teenagers armed with automatic weapons who roam the hills beating Palestinian farmers and terrorizing villagers. I've had a few confrontations with them while assisting with the olive harvest. Also, Israeli Army operatives in plain clothes infiltrate Palestinian towns and gun people in the streets like the mafia. Palestinian children continue to be shot by IDF soldiers without cause. A schoolgirl in Anata last week, two children in Bi'ilin yesterday. The death toll continues to rise. Almost 4,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis since 2,000, half of them under 18 years old. In 2006, 655 Palestinian were killed, more than ten times the number of Israelis killed. For a listing of violence stats check out:
http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties_Data.asp?Category=1


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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Reader comments (69) on this item

Title By Date
"sustained and systematic effort to alter a bellicose mentality"
[w/response] [111 words]
David BakinJun 5, 2007 15:05
Dr Pipes changing tone..
[w/response] [112 words]
HarrakApr 16, 2007 21:01
Thanks Dr Pipes [10 words]HarrakApr 17, 2007 21:25
Jaw-dropper [86 words]Mark RothApr 13, 2007 07:54
Martin Indyk and Dennis Ross are badly misinformed and a real danger to Israeli Jews [152 words]Kenneth BesigMar 18, 2007 02:48
Agree with Kenneth Besig's calibration re: Ross v Indyk; however... [597 words]marianaMar 19, 2007 22:28
Is It Time Yet? [367 words]Ron ThompsonMar 17, 2007 19:39
Hearings on Israeli-Palestinian "Progress" [23 words]Herb JuristMar 16, 2007 23:10
Pipes subcommittee comments [141 words]DeanMar 16, 2007 22:52
House subcommittee hearing [45 words]Steven LMar 16, 2007 17:23
Will this fairy tale never end? [187 words]DrRJPMar 5, 2007 18:02
Middle East Experts [152 words]DavodMar 12, 2007 05:06
Mysterious and Unique Logic? [184 words]Dean KitnickFeb 26, 2007 19:54
Re your position toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
[w/response] [68 words]
Gabriel RinzlerFeb 25, 2007 21:02
Let the Arabs rot... [304 words]Linda MooreFeb 26, 2007 12:17
"Let the Arabs Rot" by Linda [245 words]Fred SchlomkaFeb 28, 2007 11:18
OK, rot or prosper, I don't care which [194 words]Linda MooreFeb 28, 2007 17:47
Rot or Prosper continued [172 words]Fred SchlomkaMar 1, 2007 00:08
I find it hard to believe you are Israeli - all of your hostility is directed at Israel [310 words]Linda MooreMar 1, 2007 17:44
There are many types of Israelis. We are no more homogenious than people in the USA [283 words]Fred SchlomkaMar 2, 2007 09:35
Litmus test is dangerous to Antisemites [66 words]DeMar 2, 2007 17:33
Visit this site... [143 words]Linda MooreMar 2, 2007 19:05
⇒ Of Maps and fatalities [454 words]Fred SchlomkaMar 4, 2007 05:14
To: Fred Schlomka, Incredible. "You just can't make it up!" [454 words]marianaMar 19, 2007 20:41
To Daniel and Gabriel: on "Winning" [522 words]marianaMar 20, 2007 00:49
to Mariana [100 words]ASMar 22, 2007 00:38
Fred Schlomka: -Israeli leftist- Is there a difference? [87 words]Mr. ShawarmaMar 27, 2007 23:46
Boorish title from Mr. Shawamra [192 words]Fred SchlomkaMar 29, 2007 04:11
To Mariana from an israeli [461 words]Fred SchlomkaMar 29, 2007 16:26
I applaud those whom you and Jonathan Cook refer to as "thugs" and yes, Jew hater = Ashkenazi Leftist [402 words]Mr.ShawarmaMar 29, 2007 17:05
attack by Shawamra [197 words]Fred SchlomkaMar 31, 2007 02:30
Fred Schlomka's comments [319 words]Mr. ShawarmaMar 31, 2007 17:30
To: Fred Schlomka: on "armchairs and nonsense." [1572 words]marianaApr 1, 2007 12:50
some comments for Mariana [878 words]Fred SchlomkaApr 2, 2007 04:32
To: AS: This is an ISLAM vs EVERYONE ELSE issue [943 words]marianaApr 2, 2007 11:38
To Fred Schlomka: Your "Middle Eastern" Construct is clear. Forgive me if "I pass." [776 words]marianaApr 4, 2007 17:03
Fred Schlomka - Hill Top Youth comments verified [40 words]Fred SchlomkaDec 3, 2008 03:41
WHICH PUBLICATIONS?
[w/response] [21 words]
Mike DavisFeb 25, 2007 20:28
War of Wills [455 words]OliverFeb 25, 2007 17:47
Negotiation is valuable, even if you believe it won't bring peace [277 words]Erik NelsonFeb 25, 2007 17:23
Illumination [297 words]Felipe OrnelasMar 1, 2007 18:47
Chamberlain negotiated at Munich... [149 words]DeanMar 16, 2007 23:24
Biological [126 words]Don HedemanFeb 25, 2007 17:09
ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.. [186 words]DONVANMar 20, 2007 16:01
To Donvan: Interesting; would you expand. [152 words]marianaApr 2, 2007 11:55
It is not academic.. [174 words]DONVANApr 3, 2007 10:32
An unlikely negotiation [289 words]Melvyn RosensteinFeb 25, 2007 15:29
re "Arab & Muslim World." [160 words]Jascha KesslerFeb 25, 2007 15:27
history and the arab and islamic world [87 words]rodney allsworthFeb 25, 2007 22:36
Reaction to Pipes, Indyk, Makovsky Congressional Testimony
[w/response] [187 words]
Martin KaufmanFeb 25, 2007 10:08
The Good Old Gulag Days. [42 words]LeeFeb 25, 2007 09:35
Apology for not making it with my big Speed Graphic camera [233 words]Dan SchwartzFeb 25, 2007 08:43
Re House Subcommittee on Israeli -Palestinian Nego...
[w/response] [26 words]
david levyFeb 25, 2007 06:20
consider this... [140 words]JoshuaFeb 22, 2007 00:05
RE: Great debate [279 words]Donald Grant CheesmanFeb 25, 2007 18:57
"OH NO!" "DON'T SAY IT!" But ... "BRAVO!"
[w/response] [1378 words]
Sofa SogoodFeb 21, 2007 16:53
Peace or Genocide [184 words]Felipe OrnelasFeb 20, 2007 12:18
Hate to disagree with you but I do. [105 words]PeterFeb 20, 2007 11:12
Hate to disagree with your disagreement, but I do [106 words]Dean KitnickFeb 20, 2007 18:28
No dean, you have misunderstood ... [128 words]PeterFeb 21, 2007 23:11
No misunderstanding, I just think you're wrong. [86 words]Dean KitnickFeb 22, 2007 20:08
I agree with Peter [51 words]Irish SavantFeb 25, 2007 07:10
Reality Check [219 words]LarryFeb 25, 2007 09:38
Some things are non-negotiable [106 words]ZerubbabelFeb 25, 2007 10:17
Actually you needn't wonder. My comments stand on their face. [166 words]PeterFeb 25, 2007 15:30
Furthermore [69 words]PeterFeb 25, 2007 15:36
The genocide gene evolves [258 words]AronFeb 25, 2007 19:00
Why elevate Israel legitimacy to a debate? [59 words]JakeFeb 26, 2007 11:42
Subcommittee Investigations [435 words]MichaelMar 3, 2007 12:55

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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