To Noah - you lured me into a response yet again and before I knew....back to the clowns
Submitted by Michel (United States), Mar 1, 2007 at 20:08
Alright, I'll give it another try – from one "Soldier" to another, Noah.
Michel, it's blatantly obvious that you are addressing me when you talk about this. What you utterly fail to understand is that I have seen combat. Combat of the worst kind. I have had to fight my way out of an area using nothing more than my combat knife. I have been in many kill-or-be-killed hand-to-hand combats. I have seen arms and legs blown off, eyes blown out of heads, entrails spilled on my shoes. I have seen the effects of napalm and other horrendous weapons of war. In some cases I was the witness to such horrible effects, in others I was the agent delivering such wrath and destruction. I have seen the horrors of war up close and in person. Were I a lesser man, I would no doubt be whining and surrendering to the enemy the way you are, due to being emasculated. Thankfully, I have retained both my masculinity and my fighting spirit.
If that's true, Noah, then you have first and foremost my respect.
It is a fact that out of any war two kinds of people emerge. The ones come out of it with everlasting hatred against the enemy, as they saw friends die in aforementioned terrible ways. These people will see any possible threat as something which must be addressed decisively and early on, as they never again want to be in a similar situation. In a way I can understand now, where you are coming from (on a psychological dimension)
There is another type though who draws entirely different conclusions from carnage experienced. Never again applies here too, but in specific regards to innocent lives. Nothing to do with Gulf war or Stockholm syndrome, or surrendering to the enemy.
There is a difference between an enemy combatant and innocent people. I‘ll never hesitate to defend this country bearing arms in any conventional war or in the war on terrorism. Unnecessary, cruel action against civilians - sorry I can not accept as "collateral damage".
So it is not a "video game approach". And having seen these horrors in person has not made me any less eager to deport Muslims and to isolate them with the threat of nuclear annihilation. Why? Because I have seen what Muslims do. I have seen the atrocities they commit. And while I (thankfully) have never been in an Iranian, Saudi, or other Muslim prison, I have seen what happens in those places, and how innocent people are tortured, often to death, in the name of Islam. I have seen videos of women being brutally stoned to death for the "crime" of having been raped by a Muslim savage who cannot control his sexual desire. I have seen the sexual mutilation they inflict on their women (and male prisoners as well!).
Here again -
a) do these atrocities happen here in the US? No. Therefore the domestic Muslims can not be grouped into the same category as the ones you talk about.
b) Where they occur, they must be opposed by all means at our disposal indeed.
The bottom line is...better them than us. I am not the one looking for war. I prefer peace. I am not the one who declared war on Islam. Islam declared war on me.
Which Islam? How about the many Black converted Muslims here? The Canadian Moderate Muslim, the guys who wrote those articles I submitted? They all declared war on you? Poor baby, relax, it ain't that bad, I assure you.
Where we disagree and seem to be unable to find compromise, Noah, is that I can not see evidence for an all encompassing Muslim threat, but factions and shades thereof, such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranians, Wahhabis, Al Khaeda et al, where this certainly is true.
Better to nuke a city full of Muslims who support, plot and participate in terrorist activities than to allow them to nuke New York city, a city full of innocent people who allow Muslims in this country to live freely and happily. All the Muslims need to do to avoid nuclear holocaust is literally nothing. They need to do nothing and nothing in return will happen to them. How much easier can it get? Just don't do anything, and nothing will happen! With my plan, they would have to literally choose to be annihilated and purposefully and with full intent choose to go down that path by plotting and committing a mass terror attack on America.
Noah - there is no such City. There are only organizations and groups hidden amongst many peaceful normal average people. If in fact it was that simple, and there was a whole City unanimously supporting a nuclear attack on any US City, hell of course would we pre-empt such with our own strike.
But this simplistic scenario simply does not exist. The closest maybe would be IRAN, and even there, the collateral damage would be mind-blowing.
But you're not interested in honesty, now are you? You're a clown, a clown who cannot deal with the harsh realities of life, or common sense, or honesty. You're doing nothing more than trying your best to avoid dealing with reality. Your main purpose for being here is to insult Susan and to ignore me while accusing both of us of being Nazis, all because you refuse to deal with reality.
Here we go again with the personal insult. Alrighty then, I am a clown, and here is my response to that –
Susan is indeed a lost case and you, dear ex soldier, can only be called brain dead, as not even these harsh experiences, you claim to have had, have opened up your eyes. People like you tend to repeat mistakes again and again and never break the deadly mechanism of action and revenge.
My respect goes to John McCain who spent 2 years in a NVA Prison Camp, yet never condemned or discriminated against any Vietnamese to my knowlege. That's the kind of soldier I consider as true hero - the one who overcomes his hatred in spite of terrible experiences.
You believe there are 30 million Muslims in America, that all of them are friendly, reform-minded patriots, and that Santa and the Easter Bunny exist. Maybe the Tooth Faerie too.
Are you even reading my posts? As Plato so eloquently described, you Nazis take a simple statement out of context, negate any disclaimers and like a parrot keep on repeating yourself to the effect of a sleeping pill.
Even 2 M is a significant amount of people and the statement that they wait in hiding to infiltrate like sleeper cells, is just your easy way out to explain utter lack of evidence for their militancy.
As opposed to me, who believes in the tooth fairy of Moderate Islam, you believe in the Bogey Man of the Ugly Muslim. That makes me at worst a dreamer, while you become by definition paranoid. What do you think is most likely the preferable mental state?
Your focus is not on doing something to counter the growing threat of Islam. You don't even discuss that anymore. All you do is try to vilify people like me, Susan, and Dhimmi No More, because you're simply not man enough to honestly and openly debate these things with us.
BOOOOHOOOOO! Tears of pity stream down my cheek to the sound of the violins.And yes, dear Noah, your language, suggestions and depiction of 1.5B Muslims can not lead to any other conclusion than to an obligation for all ascended human beings to vilify people like you.
The growing threat of Islam is growing because of people like you who do not leave them another choice.
As opposed to your naïve strategy, I delivered a catalogue of at least feasible (boring simple and small) ways to address various challenges with regards to Islam. First and foremost, know thy enemy and it is not Islam Grosso Modo.
When will that ever penetrate the concrete wall of your ignorance? ...
You are no clowns - you are stupid ignoramusses, societal fanatics, Nazis, supremacists, considering themselves as better, purer and worthier.
You quote history again and again, yet prove human kind's inability to learn from it.
You prefer drama queen exists and magical reappearances filled with insults. You misrepresent and misquote the rest of us, you make false accusations and twist satements, all because you can't handle reality.
Wow – I dished out a bit of your own medicine and it obviously isn't fun - is it now?
The above is your and most so Susan's standard MO. It stings, haha, and you guys do deserve a bit of a blister for a change.
All of a sudden, several moderates have picked up the debate and the three musketeers Noah, Dhimmi and Susan find themselves in close quarters combat…lol. It does start to get a bit uncomfortable, doesn't it?
Yep - I only check in here from time to time to get a good laugh, especially, when enjoying Plato's contributions.
This post of yours started promising, which is why I engaged, then quickly deteriorated back to the usual under the belt attacks… Only because I read and respond paragraph by paragraph, did you lure me into a response. well done. Cost my dogs another walk.
It's a shame. I really did expect more from you.
Thanks for the compliment. So I am not just a clown? Even your insults lack constistency.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (2099) on this item
Comment on this item
Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes