To Susan: Are you Jane Goody by any chance?
Submitted by Plato (India), Feb 16, 2007 at 12:41
From a blog about how the West could lose we have started nit-picking about shades of meaning, grammar. Good for my education.
It takes some time for people to pick up a language and you began your imperialistic career a bit late, the others having beaten you to it by a long margin and you also had to leave pretty quick. (Here you, your stands for Italy, just so you don't think I am accusing you personally.)
You have put your own condition of what imperialism is all about. The conquored should speak the language of the conquorer. So if the Brits had conquored all those colonies and worked through interpreters that would make them just the bearers of 'the white man's burden'?
The Chinese have taken over Tibet so by your reckoning the Chinese will be imperialists only when the Tibetans start speaking Mandarin?
I wrote: "Where have I mixed up inquisition with those other things. I was telling you the inquisition and fascism are things to forget. "
You wrote: Instead we keep on repeatnig that nazism and the holocaust are things to remember. You have a pretty distorted view of facts.
You wrote: "I am sorry I have no responsibility in such acts, I come from italy as well as my ancestors, no relation with British, Dutch, Germans or French that went to americas. There was no italian army conquering land mass and stealing to indians. So your stupid comments are mere self-loathing of a guilty westerner, that is YOUR problem, not mine."
I wrote:Something to be proud of. You were not imperialists except in god-forsaken places like Libya and Somalia? But something you could do well to forget. The inquisition. And as the home of fascism from which one of your favourites terms of endearment for Muslims comes - Islamo-fascists.
Now I write: Let me explain in as much detail (I was trying for brevity). 'Something to be proud of' is referring to your statement 'I am sorry I have no responsibility in such acts..' What is this something to be proud of - it is the fact that you were not imperialists of the British, Dutch... kind. Now for the 'But something you could do well to forget' is referring to my next two sentences 'The inquisition. And as the home of fascism...' That is, it is convenient for you to become amnesic about them. Note: Germany was the home of Nazism, it no more is. The reading comprehension and sentence construction classes I am attending have only recently begun after Noah's advice. And I did not comment about ' So your stupid comments are mere self-loathing of a guilty westerner, that is YOUR problem, not mine.' because as you so often have pointed out I am so stupid that I did not understand it is my problem exclusively.
The source of your knowledge wikipedia tells me nothing about this imaginary papal empire.
When there was the inquisition there was a certain Ferdinand and queen isabella, was she a papess?"
Papal empire. Sort of figure of speech meaning the Catholic world of the time , note the alphapbet 'e' is not in capital. I forgot that you don't use caps. Just telling you that Catholocism ruled the roost in Europe in those far off days. I thought Protestantism reared its head after Isabella. Again maybe I am wrong but it was the Roman Catholic Church that established the Inquisition in Spain
"So sorry I forgot the Spanish auto da fe"
that happens when you're busy avoiding the subject bringing up side subjects like the native americans, or when you are totally ignorant of hystory and whatever you think you know of the muslim world full of moderates."
I had written: So sorry I forgot the Spanish auto da fa (I was concentrating on your country), it was worse than yours, no question about it. It is nice to have someone else's crime take the heat off one's own somewhat lesser crime. Reminds me of the Muslims coming up with the Crusades, Hitler, the World Wars etc. to hide their own crimes. Well done you are fast learning the Muslim tricks - THAT IS THE FULL QUOTE.
Another Muslim trick, quote out of context when convenient. You have left out what I had written in parenthesis which gives what I said a substantially different feel does it not?. Do I have to explain it in excruciating detail?
"well unlike the muslims that you admire so much, nobody in the western world is denying the inquisition, unlike the muslims that are still denying the armenian genocide of 50-100 years ago only. Must be that you are mistaking us for somebody else?"
"evidence that somalians speak italian? I have evidence that the whole maghreb speaks french.
"Ask Mo, Sohail, Syed Mohammed Ali, Raqib, Shakeel... how much I admire Muslims. No I am not mistaking you for anybody else but from the attitudes that you display I am beginning to think that you are a Muslims in disguise.
"needle? LOL, I am talking anonymously on the internet with an asian... thinking he knows something and you think you are needling me?
Guess what, tomorrow, I will get back to my everyday life, minding my own business and talking to people about the threat muslims represent. On the same token you will get back to your 3rd world country habits, still NOT finding any moderate muslim you brag about, still having deep problems with the rise up of the muslims, still not having a clue about how to solve the problem
who's the one with needles ?"
You are not needled. Then why the vitriol. The word Muslim to you is like the word Jew to a Nazi.
Susan I also will get back to my life in the Asian boondocks where I am comfortable with my thirdwordly habits including our toilet habits. Like Jane Goody on the Big Brother show, since you seem to know about third world habits, especially of Asia, would you also not eat food I prepare not knowing where my fingers have been. So why don't you let all the readers know what the third world habits are. The habits are our own, we are proud of some, not so proud of others. Let me tell about the third world complex. Who gave it to us? Your European brothers with their ‘white man's burden' complex. We have been taught we are ‘third' rate and you are ‘first' rate in all matters. That should be a great ego boost for you.
I also talk to acquaintances of the threat of Islam as practised now. But my solution is not to bring in the exterminator. I have no final solution like you have, or like Hitler, the fascist, had for the Jews. My solution is nearer the kumbaya solution of which you are so contemptuous.
"that's not true but... I guess I cannot expect a better analysis.
I have told you we never conquered anything, never colonialized anything, only brought hospitals, streets and structures basically for free to those countries admitting we've been totally unable to have a payback like france and britain did, so I am not a patriot by any standards"
Muslim deny they are conquest-happy, they are only peaceful Allah believers. Just go on denying you conquored anyone or colonised anyone against all the evidence. As I have been telling Noah, Muslim is as Muslim does. You regret that you could not rampage across the territories of miserable Asians and Africans and bring in the goodies (booty) for your country like the Brits, Spanish and other European brothers. Yes I can see why you see yourself as a lesser patriot.
"You have improved my education by showing that Italy was not the home of fascism."
"that's a problem of your lack of english comprehension. If I say that China is the home of concubines it means by merely grammar and syntax standards that concubines are still existing full force in china, which is not true. If I say that Australia is the home of kangaroos it means that there are plenty of cangaroos still there, which is true. If I say that anatolia is the home of armenians it's a lie because they have been all exterminated."
My education under your tutelage is improving by the day. Just change the ‘is' you have used to ‘was' in all your sentences with a few other required changes and see what comes to the surface. Are you denying that Italy was the first country to use the term fascism? I copy and paste from my previous post: A totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life. The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini . (That fooled my third world intelligence into assuming that Italy WAS the home of fascism. Imbecilic, oops stupid, of me.)
"I fail to see on your link/definition, that italy is the home of fascism. I see only a "it was firstly used, but it has also been applied to similar ideologies in other countries, e.g., to National Socialism in Germany and to the regime of Francisco Franco in Spain."
Why have you not completed ‘it was firstly used? It says :...The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini . By this definition the Soviet Union, China, Saddam Hussein and many more were or are fascist. But the name was first used by Mussolini and Mussolini was the ruler of Italy. So I assumed wrongly, by your lights, that Italy WAS the home of fascism. Great education. Thank you again.
That is why Italy WAS the home of fascism and Russia IS the home of vodka.
Who asked you for evidence that the Somalis speak Italian. The Goans of India do not speak Portuguese despite a 400-year rule. So the Portuguse were not colonists there? You have a convenient way of defining what is imperialism, conveniently taking Italy out of the picture. Good for the conscience.No Spain and Italy were part of the mighty Papal empire."
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (2096) on this item
Comment on this item
You can help support Daniel Pipes' work by making a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes