It keeps coming back to what I've been saying
Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Feb 13, 2007 at 19:28
"I scanned the news links he provided in support of existence of moderate Islam and ended up thinking that there are at least some voices within the Islamic world, reasoning for modern world principles. Even few such voices are proof of life, wouldn't you think so?"
It's proof that for every rule, there is an exception. And that's all it is. An exception. An aberration. An anomaly. If it could be shown that 25% of Muslims, or perhaps even 10% of Muslims were truly working forcefully to reform their religion, then I'd say that was a significant number. But the actual numbers we are getting even amongst the most supposedly "moderate" Muslim communities (ie the ones in America, etc) are less than one-half of one percent (0.5%). In some instances it is less than one-quarter or one-tenth of one percent. That is so small as to be insignficant.
And as I have repeatedly said, basing our strategy for confronting this threat on a tiny, almost non-existent and powerless aberration within the larger phenomenon known as Islam is the height of stupidity and ignorance. It's akin to spending all your life savings, getting a second mortgage on your home, quitting your job, and then buying a lottery ticket with your last dollar in the belief that it holds the key to your future financial security. Only a madman would do that.
"Having established that, why is it so inconceivable that the same could not apply for instance to the Islamic minority here in the United States?"
Because we see no evidence of it, that's why. When we remove immams from flights for suspicious behavior, the Muslims here protest, they hire CAIR to sue the airlines, etc. But you don't ever see them protesting when Muslims commit atrocities. You never see CAIR condeming terrorists by name (to the best of my knowledge, they have never done so despite being repeatedly challenged to do so). And when you have experience with Muslims, you will realize that even the ones who seem "normal" are usually quite disturbed and depraved, as my experience has shown.
"I mean, in the end doesn't it boil down to the people's actions?"
Yes, it does, and that is precisely what damns Muslims. The mythological "moderate" Muslims are not doing anything to reclaim their religion. Here in America for example, they have ample opportunity to force CAIR (Council for American Islamic Relations...their largest organization) to condemn terror and to condemn terrorists by name, to condemn madmen like Amadmanjihad in Iran, Yasser Arafat (while he was alive), or any other terrorist leader. They have not done so. They channel money to CAIR, which supports terror, has terror links, has publicly declared that its goal it to force Islam onto America as the supreme law of the land, and which instigates and manages the litigious wing of their all-encompassing jihad against America.
So yes, their own actions damn them. They are making no significant effort to reform their religion. Instead, their efforts are aimed at whitewashing the truth about Islam in the public eye, and forcing Islam into our culture.
"It would surpass the often mentioned critical mass with regards to legislating a ban, enforce the latter and /or deport Muslims on a grand scale, since our Defense Forces are already at their limits for geo-political reasons and Law Enforcement isn't even able to combat gang related crimes or a handful of Columbian drug cartels, let alone is able to stem the tide of standard criminality. Considering the current political climate, as well as legal frame, in this country such legislation could never make it beyond the level of a petition."
It could easily be handled if we had someone with brains and guts in charge. We don't need troops stationed all over Europe. Let Europe fight its own battles for once. The war on drugs doesn't need our troops, and is ridiculous. Crime is handled by police, not military.
"Assuming that educated people like you see the logic of your Modus Operandi at best being a non-starter, what do you suggest instead?"
As I have explained before, there is no alternative.
And I am not saying that my ban/deport/deterrence solution will happen, only that it would work. Just because our society and even moreso our leaders lack the insight and spine to enact such a solution does not mean that there is another solution. It means we are doomed. Humans do not like to change. They tend to avoid changing unless and until change is forced on them. Muslims will not change for the better while we allow them to exist in our society. We give them rights they give to no one in their own countries, and they simply use those rights against us. You cannot reason with them, as you have seen here on this very blog and in the news. They must be forced to reform, and the only way to force that is to deny them access to our freedoms and our blessings and to deport them and isolate them, with the additional incentive of nuclear deterrence. It's no different than parents using Tough Love on a recalcitrant child.
Negotiation with them is usless because they see that as a sign of weakness. Negotiating with them is also useless because their very religion mandates lying to us in order to gain our trust and defeat us when the opportunity arises. We've taken the "soft" approach with them, as has Israel, and what do we have to show for it? More rocket attacks, more violence, more killing, more genocide.
"Michael , Plato or Chris may be naïve, but I have yet to read about a pragmatic idea originating from the hard, right wing core of this Blog."
My idea is pragmatic, and the only workable one. The responsibility to reforming Islam must rest squarely on Islam's shoulders. And Islam is utterly resistant to change...indeed, they believe they cannot change a word of their cult book, and insist that not a single letter has been changed in 1,400 years. They'll never change unless forced to change. The only way they'll be forced to change is to remove them, isolate them, and deter them from ever attacking us. When they are forced into isolation with no help from the West, they will suffer as they have never suffered before, they will be forced to deal with the truth that their death cult is depraved and in urgent need of reform into a true and peaceful religion. In Chinese medicine, there is a saying that (roughly translated) goes: "When the patient is sick enough, he will seek a doctor". Such is the case here.
Right now, Muslims have an outlet for the all-encompassing anger and bitterness that their repressive and depraved death cult breeds in them...the West. They can attack us, shoot rockets at us, harass us, plot atrocities against us, and above all blame us for the numerous problems inherent in Islam itself. Once they are deported and isolated, they will be forced to vent their anger on themselves, and eventually their misery and prehistoric existence will force them to want to change. They will see that they are centuries behind the rest of the world, and will gain the desire to join civilization. That's when reform will take place, and when Islam will cease to be a threat.
Or they'll have a massive civil war that lasts for centuries, killing one another. Fine with me, as long as they leave us alone. Either way, the problem is solved.
"Until such is presented, I for my part think that the small group of people who support a multi-facetted, moderate approache, at least, as far as our US Muslims are concerned, are right."
In that case, why don't you step forward, pick up the gauntlet, step up to the challenge, and present to us a precise and detailed alternative plan that acknowledges both reality and historical precedence in order to deal with the threat of Islam? So far, the people whom you seem to favor have done nothing but spout empty platitudes and New Age Bliss Bunny nonsense. That's the problem with weak people. They alway rally for "moderate" approaches, which in reality ends up meaning "weak, cowardly, and ineffective" approaches. Have you noticed that no one else has come up with a realistic and workable alternative approach to mine, despite my repeated challenges to them to do so?
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Reader comments (2097) on this item
Comment on this item
You can help support Daniel Pipes' work by making a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum. Daniel J. Pipes