Daniel Pipes
Mobile Edition
Regular Site

"Jesus Camps", Mel M., etc.
Reader comment on item: My Debate with London Mayor Ken Livingstone
in response to reader comment: Don't forget the "God's Kingdom" menace. How many "Jesus Camps" will it take? And, where are the moderates?

Submitted by Peter J. Herz (United States), Jan 29, 2007 at 17:43

Mel M.; I am not Christian "moderate". I would like to see the conversion of everyone to Gospel Christianity. I even honor the memories of Huldreich Zwingli, Heinrich Bullinger, Jean Calvin, John Knox, Andrew Melville, Oliver Cromwell, and Samuel Rutherford. I hate women's ordination, and see sodomy as disgusting. Nor do I accept the dispensational premilennial eschatology that animates much pro-Israel sentiment among my brethren. But I do NOT support the Christian Reconstruction movement.

I agree that the movement is dangerous--especially when, in the case of people like Gary North (the dude who brought us the Y2K brouhaha) it mixes with Pentecostalism (in Massachusetts ca. 1650, Pentecostals would have been flogged out of town at the cart's tail for Quakers--look at what P's and Q's believed now and back then, and you'll see how akin they are). Christian Reconstructionism is a case where people touched by the radical fire of the Silly Sixties and Sillier Seventies decided to react in a similar bullying, paranoiac, and irrational manner.

However, one thing that will keep us all from the CR scourge is that the Dominionists are about as brittle and schism-prone a movement as ever existed. They will damn each other over the slightest pretext long before they can get enough power to do anything to anyone else. if they did indeed have a unified hold on the Christian Right, and were indeed a unified force, I assure you that the "Bible-based executions" you so fear would've already begun.

Ultimately, the Risen Christ's final marching order to His church is "make disciples", not "massacre the Canaanites!"; and the warnings of the Book of Revelation are about what GOD, not the church, will do--and also contain an invitation to hearers to "come". It is why there will always be Evangelicals (yes, even Confessional Reformed folk like me) who are more concerned that the Gospel appear as a door through which people are invited to enter rather than as a club held over their heads.

Remember, we Christians also call the Old Testament Scripture--even if we see the civil and ceremonial (but not the moral) laws of the Pentateuch set aside since the coming of Christ. If we learn anything from the Babylonian Captivity, it is that good guys can and do lose--especially when their Heavenly Father wants them to put away abominations and get back on the right track.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

Submit a comment on this item

Search by Enter name or date
Search Forum Comments:

Reader comments (100) on this item

Title By Date
multicuralisme consensuel
[w/response] [34 words]
FransoletMar 29, 2007 06:17
Livingstone [68 words]jon purizhanskyMar 21, 2007 07:40
Bravo but.... [136 words]Howard WohlFeb 20, 2007 18:39
Your UK visit [46 words]AlanFeb 4, 2007 11:26
I was there [524 words]James KennedyFeb 3, 2007 14:29
My Own Thoughts on the Clash of Civilizations [599 words]Rebecca MouldsFeb 3, 2007 14:14
A gap in Daniel Pipes distinction between moderate Islam and Islamists [167 words]Ian MordantFeb 2, 2007 21:07
"Moderate" Muslims are silent Islamists [79 words]JaladhiFeb 4, 2007 14:41
"moderate=opportunistic" [39 words]VijayFeb 5, 2007 04:24
Choosing words [227 words]TerryFeb 24, 2007 20:15
Reply from Mayor's Office
[w/response] [156 words]
Tom PowerFeb 2, 2007 12:11
Pipes vs The Mayor debate mp3 available here [67 words]london soundFeb 3, 2007 07:28
The goal of a moderate, democratic, humane Islam is totally impossible. [213 words]Carl GoldbergFeb 2, 2007 01:42
Dr Pipes in London, an excellent talk.. [254 words]HarrakFeb 1, 2007 14:13
Biased Media also Applies in Ireland [232 words]Eamonn GavinFeb 1, 2007 12:21
Regarding Pope Marmalade 3rd. [402 words]Maurice KeenanApr 4, 2007 07:42
Pope Marmalade and The Imam [223 words]Eamonn GavinApr 4, 2007 18:56
Apology. [373 words]Maurice KeenanApr 10, 2007 07:25
Pope Marmalade and The Imam [141 words]Eamonn GavinApr 11, 2007 03:38
Pope Marmalade and The Imam [31 words]Eamonn GavinApr 11, 2007 03:45
Um, I hate to be annoying, but can we get this on mp3 for ipod? [9 words]KayJan 31, 2007 23:54
Berkeley Speech [36 words]Emmanuel ParelloJan 29, 2007 18:36
Ken Livingstone in fool's paradise [370 words]VijayJan 29, 2007 11:05
Media Blackout shouldn't be ignored [86 words]ShepardJan 29, 2007 01:36
New Political.Media Website in UK offers hope [116 words]Allan LevineFeb 3, 2007 17:22
debate on youtube [22 words]EJEiermanJan 28, 2007 20:17
getting the video and transcripts out [55 words]VicktoryaJan 28, 2007 17:57
Ken Livingstone's new dance [68 words]Archimedes2Jan 29, 2007 00:58
Donations of Tripods welcome [124 words]VicktoryaJan 29, 2007 16:19
podcast [32 words]TPFeb 4, 2007 05:51
Videos on youtube [12 words]flyboyJan 28, 2007 14:09
Video of debate on youtube [31 words]Bjorn LarsenJan 28, 2007 13:35
Congratulations, Dr. Pipes [15 words]EarlJan 28, 2007 11:52
Land Stolen from Arabs [60 words]wolffJan 28, 2007 02:46
World belongs to Muslims, Allah said so [217 words]InfidelJan 28, 2007 17:11
World belongs to Muslims- Allah says so! Muslims are deceived! -response to Infidel. [422 words]AnneJun 28, 2009 19:27
Where I stand [530 words]JonathanJan 27, 2007 20:06
What's in a newscast? [322 words]DrewJan 27, 2007 16:01
K. Livingstone's Londonistan [141 words]Steven LJan 27, 2007 15:16
Request [20 words]Dave PetteysJan 26, 2007 21:36
A response To Mr. Hundels (Pickled Politics) Critique of the Debate [231 words]Philip W. ChapmanJan 26, 2007 21:10
IF THERE IS WAR IN EURABIA - DON'T COUNT ON AMERICANS TO SAVE YOUR NECKS THIS TIME [88 words]Nabil ShawarmaJan 26, 2007 18:00
count on them we must [172 words]TerryFeb 26, 2007 17:29
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WILL NOT SUPPORT AN INVASION OF EURABIA [172 words]Nabil ShawarmaFeb 26, 2007 19:37
Eloquent elegance triumphs over oafish idiocy [112 words]Will ScottJan 26, 2007 05:00
Questions for Londoners!! [36 words]JaladhiJan 26, 2007 16:52
Transcript available? [13 words]MandyJan 29, 2007 06:16
The reasons why [191 words]TerryApr 14, 2007 18:52
A word about "moderates" [187 words]MelMJan 26, 2007 02:27
no such animal... [144 words]donvanJan 26, 2007 17:22
Don't forget the "God's Kingdom" menace. How many "Jesus Camps" will it take? And, where are the moderates? [315 words]MelMJan 28, 2007 00:42
⇒ "Jesus Camps", Mel M., etc. [396 words]Peter J. HerzJan 29, 2007 17:43
Christian dominionism [179 words]donvanJan 30, 2007 08:48
There is no such thing as "Dominionism", I challenge you to do a google search! [149 words]KayFeb 1, 2007 00:27
Resources for those who value reason, science, and freedom. [451 words]MelMFeb 1, 2007 19:41
MelM, you haven't proven a thing about Dominionism [344 words]KayFeb 3, 2007 14:08
Yaqoob states her allegiance [293 words]Archimedes2Jan 26, 2007 01:30
Going into the Lion's Den [27 words]Daniel TarmanJan 25, 2007 20:28
A debate on multiculturalism at at time that religious Jews can't attend [36 words]Allan LevineJan 25, 2007 17:37
Red Ken says "I would not have created an Israel" [160 words]Allan LevineJan 25, 2007 08:37
Ken goes on-the-record on Israel [86 words]JonathanJan 26, 2007 00:31
Red Ken [204 words]TerryFeb 24, 2007 19:56
Terry - Not necessarily logical [153 words]Allan LevineFeb 25, 2007 09:11
I fully agree [73 words]TerryFeb 26, 2007 16:39
So what's to be done? [75 words]Allan LevineFeb 26, 2007 19:08
London Mayor Ken Livingstone [81 words]E KurtockJan 24, 2007 23:29
I think someone listened Daniel! [84 words]Archimedes2Jan 24, 2007 22:50
Ken Livingstone, Tariq Ramadan and hidden agendas [12 words]AlanJan 24, 2007 17:57
BBC & CNN International & Londoners & Other British sheeple - supporters of Ken Livingstone [276 words]Nabil ShawarmaJan 24, 2007 17:03
Livingstone Humbled [766 words]Ryan ShevlaneJan 24, 2007 14:52
Pipes-Livingstone debate - Daniel wins hands down! [187 words]MaryJan 26, 2007 16:20
Livingstone's multiculturalism is the West's albatross [383 words]Ibn-Saud...Feb 23, 2007 04:51
Livingstone humbled [35 words]Ryan ShevlaneJan 24, 2007 14:40
Free Speech in Londonistan [145 words]Jennifer KingJan 24, 2007 11:23
Report by Oliver Kamm [38 words]JoshJan 24, 2007 07:52
media-blackout [52 words]sheik yer'mamiJan 24, 2007 05:29
A breath of sanity in an insane world [185 words]Jackie GoymourJan 23, 2007 19:10
Clash of Civilizations? NO! [102 words]DRPJan 23, 2007 18:40
Certainly seems to have been Worthwhile [530 words]Ron ThompsonJan 23, 2007 18:13
Pipes Debate with London Mayor Ken Livingstone [62 words]HelenJan 23, 2007 16:13
Not surprising [66 words]David W. LincolnJan 23, 2007 14:20
Prepare for war [377 words]Jay OuelletJan 23, 2007 13:21
The Fallout [73 words]Lydia RivlinJan 23, 2007 11:35
At a Loss for words Ken? [67 words]Adam GreavesJan 23, 2007 08:38
Debate a turning point in the ideological war -a victory for the West - defeat for leftist Islamist alliance [133 words]Ben van de PolderJan 23, 2007 08:29
For Dr. Pipes and the mayor of London [70 words]dhimmi no moreJan 23, 2007 08:04
is this surprising? [113 words]ASJan 23, 2007 07:22
Sorry to have missed this [116 words]Kevin BywaterJan 23, 2007 06:06
Leftist media blackout [60 words]VijayJan 23, 2007 04:39
Thanks Daniel! Ominous situation in London though. [205 words]MelMJan 23, 2007 02:12
Why no MSM? [38 words]jonathan hoffmanJan 23, 2007 02:10
Why, indeed, no MSM? [290 words]DaisyJan 24, 2007 11:23
Good Question. Some attendees at the debate could help with this [260 words]Archimedes2Jan 24, 2007 14:51
re MSM [42 words]Jonathan HoffmanJan 24, 2007 17:16
Transcript [71 words]JonathanJan 24, 2007 17:19
Transcript [3 words]DaisyJan 24, 2007 21:49
Transcript [22 words]Charlie QuidnuncJan 25, 2007 10:15
Jonathan Freeland [31 words]Allan LevineJan 25, 2007 17:45
At last a newspaper has reported the Conference [556 words]JonathanJan 26, 2007 00:36
Personally, I find the Media Blackout scary! [360 words]AWLJan 26, 2007 23:12

Comment on this item

Name
Email Address (optional)
Title of Comments
Comments:

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

See the 25 most recent outstanding comments.

Back to top of page