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You're making inaccurate comparisons and assumptions

Reader comment on item: How the West Could Lose
in response to reader comment: I guess, I am a fool indeed ( famous last words of the fat lady...)

Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Jan 25, 2007 at 07:32

Michel, you are making totally inaccurate and erroneous comparisons and assumptions.

You wrote:

"Even if admittedly rare, reason for hope. One single example like that deserves in my book fair treatment."

Pinning your hope on such a terribly rare event is like pinning your hopes for paying off your debts on winning the lottery, simple because someone else won it once. It's not realistic by any measure.

" Analogy: I am N O T willing to bomb a house full of Serial Killers to the ground, if there is one innocent child inside. You can not call me in above analogy right or wrong. You can either share or not share my philosophy."

This is an improper, inaccurate, and erroneous example for several reasons. First, it is an appeal to emotion as it involves killing a child. Second, it elevates the life of one above the lives of many. Certainly, it would be sad and regretable that a child was killed in such an attack. However, allowing such sentimentality to prevent the job from being carried out is a disservice that effectively emasculates those fighting the terrorists. If we allow those serial killers to escape due to the presence of one innocent child, how many more are condemned to die by our inaction? Perhaps hundreds of innocent people will die. The lives of the many outweigh the lives of the one.

Let us escalate that to a situation where Bin Laden, Amadmanjihad, Zawahiri, and other top terrorist leaders are in a cave somewhere on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. They have 3 nuclear devices and the plans and money along with the agents who are going to bring the bombs into the United States. The plan is virtually foolproof. They are going to nuke LA, NYC, and Chicago, killing 20,735,475 innocent people. Twenty million plus! There are a couple of little Afghani and Pakistani boys and girls living in the caves with them (probably sex slaves). Do you blow the cave and everyone in it to kingdom come? Or do you condemn over 20 million people to a horrible death, condemn our entire country to decades of misery and deprivation, condemn our entire way of life and future, simply to save a few children?

Absurd! I'd sacrifice my own children in that scenario!

"I am today preparing for my Naturalization test. "All men are created equal", Bill of rights. Your MO is in direct contradiction to the US constitution."

That says nothing about allowing subversives intent on destroying our country into our lands and giving them all the tools they need to enact their genocidal plans. My MO is not at all in contradiction of the Constitution. In fact, I would consider this supported in Article 3, in the section on treason:

"Section 3: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort"

Treason can be punished with a death sentence. You also overlook the fact that I would not be imposing a death sentence on all Muslims. I would be enforcing the deportation of an alien ideology hostile to the ver existence of the United States, and those who adhere to such an ideology.

"I am starting to doubt your military background, Noah."

Doesn't matter whether you doubt it or not. I know what I know. No, I am not an expert on nukes. Nuclear weapons was not my field. I was involved with the various special forces groups.

"What is "very little" fall out? Will you concede that that fall out of a strike even with low yield bunker busting, precision targeted smart delivery systems on the level needed to take out just 3 out of 20 (optimistic estimate) targets, would result in a fall out far greater than for instance Tschernobyl?"

Very little fallout would be fallout that is not significant enough to precipitate a rise in radiation related deaths. From what I have read, the bunker busting nukes we have burst underground, just like the test sites in the desert. Those areas (the Iranian nuke sites) would simply be fenced off and enclosed. Most of the radiation would be contained underground. The rest would disspiate harmlessly as it would not be a significant amount.

"Can you even fathom, what that fall out would do to a region of 1500miles? There is not enough grain in the world to make up for just the crops lost in this region. For decades after, genetic defects throughout the entire region including Europe. The crater such a bunker buster opens is 50 yards wide, for God's sake.Enough to send massive amounts of nuclear radiation upwards into the atmosphere. It would take several times Hiroshima levels to break through, down and destroy wide. Study the specs, if you can access them. Some of the stuff is by now declassified and you should be able to find them."

First, most of the explosion would be contained underground. What part of that don't you get? Second, better to irradiate a nasty swath of barren desert than to allow Israel or New York City to be destroyed.

"So you propose a totalitarian system? If you are right and 85% of the US population are against amnesty, then it will not pass. If they do not vote, they do not have a right to complain."

You clearly don't understand how America works. Roughly 85% are against amnesty, but the politicians don't work for the will of the people anymore. Hence, my call for revolution.

"Why is this so hard for you to understand, that I do N O T refute most of your examples, quotes and or references, but actually accept them as a fact. I just do not see those as 100% representative for the entire Muslim World. And I see your MO as not feasible, too radical and too simplistic."

No one claimed they were 100% representative of the entire Muslim world. Obviously there are Muslims who are the exception to the rule. Just not enough to skew the equation. My methods are not too radical, they are totally appropriate to the threat. What causes you such anguish over it? Is it the idea of being firm and determined and not wishy-washy? Is it the tough love approach where I force the perpetrator to atone his own actions? My solution spares the United States any further deterioration of culture by Muslims, it destroys their various, multi-level methods of jihad instantly, it rids us of known terrorists and appeasers, and it forces Islam into isolation while putting the burden of reform where it belongs...back on the Muslims themselves.

I fail to see why you object so vehemently to it, while failing to offer a workable and realistic solution of your own.

"Fact of life – not until the pressure becomes unbearable, are we willing to adapt. Have you looked at the sales of Trucks and Hummers in the US lately? The rise of the Toyota Prius? Look at what's currently driving around in any Western Europe Capital ( 2 seaters, 60m/g ). Look at the recycling efforts in Germany or Switzerland at present at up to 80%. The development of Solar and wind technology. Once again, you focus on what's not happening, yet fail to see the positive developments. Most western innovations after all."

And yet despite decades of supposed efforts to wean ourselves of oil, we are still addicted and using more than ever. Be realistic. The oil cartels control government. You're never going to wean America from oil while they run things.

"Denial goes both ways, Noah. Reduction of dependence on middle eastern Oil to 20% (USA) is utter?
Been on the streets of LA lately? More and more solar panels in CA? Stock development of Hi tech corps dealing in alternative energies? For heaven's sakes, I am not denying that we have a long way to go and are nowhere near elimination of the dependency, but there is clear evidence as to a will to reduce it. If you call such inexistent, then it's you who is in denial."

Again, your vision is pie-in-the-sky and unrealistic. We've been claiming the effort to become independant on foreign oil for over 30 years and we are no closer than we were 30 years ago. Sure, some environmental nuts are gung-ho about solar and wind energy, but they are also unrealistic about it and overly enthusiatic. It won't work. And it certainly won't work while we have a government run behind the scenes to a large degree by the oil companies themselves.

" The campaign in Irak was a master piece of conventional warfare, demonstrating the ability to adapt to any kind of enemy and minimize casualties."

On the contrary, the Iraq war has been a monumental example of utter stupidity and ignorance of the history of warfare. In our zeal to get to Baghdad, we failed to disarm and properly imprison enemy combatants after we pushed through a given area, we failed to secure those areas, and now those enemy combatants are back staging a guerilla warfare effort against us. We failed in the field of propaganda and psychological warfare when we failed to pound Fallujah into the dirt and allowed Al Sadr to continue living. He now runs the largest (and anti-American) terrorist militia in Iraq. We failed to secure the borders, which has allowed thousands of terrorist fighters to infiltrate from both Iran and Syria, and we have utterly failed to deter those countries from sending those terrorist fighters into Iraq. Everyone involved in the Iraq war (from a decision making and leadership role, not our brave soldiers on the ground) should hang their head in shame over such a mismanaged mess. If Rumsfeld had any integrity at all, he'd committ hara kiri (ritual suicide) over his actions, which have disgraced America and emboldened the enemy.

" Not one single terror attack since 9/11 here in a very vulnerable country is one hell of an achievement by the"War On Terror"

Don't be so fast to attribute that to the "war on terror", which is an idiotic misnomer. It defies common sense to believe that the "war on terror" is the reason that no major terror attacks have occurred on American soil since 9/11. Give me 12 fanatics and $100,000 and I could shut this country down and destroy the economy in 3 hours flat (no, I will not give you details under any circumstance). The terrorists are not that stupid. If they wanted to destroy our economy, if they wanted to cause unimaginable problems for our entire society, it would not take nuclear weapons or other WMDs.

There must be another explanation, because it is easily within their power to do so. And that explanation is that their tactics and goals preclude another attack on America. Such an attack would reverse the worldwide erosion of support for the war in Iraq, which would be counter-productive to their current goals.

"If above results and developments can not be seen as "societal", what can? You can not speak your mind freely in America?"

Boy, are you in for a big surprise when you get here! No, you cannot speak your mind freely in America. If you criticize Islam, your radio talk show gets yanked off the air. If you say something truthful about Mexicans, you lose your government job. If you say the wrong thing (though it is the absolute truth), you lose the election. You cannot mention God or Jesus in your graduation speech. Your blog gets shut down if you have political commentary, and they are trying to enact laws to limit political free speech online. So no, you cannot speak your mind freely in America.

"You yourself have used that as an argument, that Muslims use that very exact freedom to spread their lies….."

Yes, because the right of free speech is applied only to the enemies of the state and our culture. Islam is free to speak lies and propaganda and to disparage Christians and Jews without any threat of legal repercussion, but Catholic and Christian churches who simply preach their beliefs within their own church by saying they do not condone homosexuality end up with ministers and priests in jail, tax benefits lost, etc. America is a mess!

"I do not allow them anything. As soon as I can vote, my voice will speak against such."

And your voice will be meaningless. The goverment no longer fears the people...the people fear the goverment. Your vote cannot change things. Activist judges take upon themselves powers they are not allowed by the Constitution, and the Legislative branch does nothing to curb that usurption of power. Voting does not work. At this point, i fear only revolution can restore the USA to its Constitutional roots.

"I can not deny that our passiveness has led to perversions and the impression you describe above. But it still is in the hands of the people to stand up against, partake in the political process instead of simply complaining."

The sheeple are simply not movitvated. All they care about is the latest advance in HD tv, who the movie star of the day is sleeping with, and their own convenience and comfort. Americans watch on average 5 hours of tv a day! Add to that 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of work, and two hours travelling to and from work. That leaves one free hour per day. Television and excess entertainment is eroding our nation like few other things can.

" We had the support of the entire Western World. We were unified (again). America stood like one man and up to this day, Gulf war veterans enjoy moral support on the home front like no Vietnam vet ever did"

Really? That's why a group of patriotic motorcycle bikers had to form an organization in order to protect the funerals of servicemen, whose funerals were being desecrated by cretins who were against the war? That's why professors are allowed to remain in teaching positions in American colleges while telling our children that we need a thousand more Mogadishus and that they hope our soldiers die in the deserts of Iraq?

"I stand against intolerance and any form of radicalism from any side."

Dishonest argument there. There is no intolerance from my side of the fence, outside of intolerance for terror and destruction of freedom and culture, which cannot be considered a bad thing. And my solutions are not at all radical, but indeed have been used in the past, successfully.

"I see one single example of positive as reason for hope and entry point for constructive approaches"

Again, an irresponsible and unrealistic view. You cannot pin your hopes on the exception to the rule. Doing so dooms you to failure.

"I am a relativist of the purest form. Reality, as you call it can be looked at from different angles and a variety of different conclusions can be derived."

I don't accept the theory of moral relativism in any way for any reason. Show me an instance in which the rape of a child can be a "good" thing. Show me where the cold blooded murder of a single mother with 5 children is a good thing. Show me where blowing up 3,000 innocent people, destroying at least as many families, and wrecking the economy can be considered a godo thing. You cannot, because those things are universally evil, and no amount of twisting of words or concepts can transform them into good things.

" I challenge you to grabb any paragraph out of the Koran for example ( or choose any other book) you like, then submit it to 10 different people from 10 different religious or cultural backgrounds and ask them to translate it or interprete it. Do it here as a lab experiment. You choose. My hypothesis: 10 differing interpretations. Wanna bet?"

Not at all interested. How the Koran is interpreted by the general masses is all that interests me. Clearly, it is mainly interpreted as violent. I can read all sorts of "cosmic meaning" into Dr. Seuss's Green Eggs and Ham , that does not mean it has any significance in reality.

"I ve seen terrible ugliness, but I have also seen the best in humans there is and the latter surrounded by unspeakable misery."

Those are superficial relationships and short term or intermittent. They do not reveal the reality of the matter. Again, try living openly as a Christian in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or the areas of Israel under control of the so-called "Palestinians". You'll quickly come to understand the reality of things, and see just how "friendly" the natives can be.

"I want to hear, what an average American Muslim has to say about that."

The problem is, how can you trust what they say, when Muslims are mandated by their religion to lie to you, an infidel?

"Don't deny the logic of the analogy. Can you accept that I promote the free will to either live with the amputation or not? Sometimes the surgery kills the patient. Sometimes the therapy is worse than the illness it tries to defeat."

It's you who are twisting the analogy. Yes, you can choose to love with the infection and forgo the amputation, but that would be an act of extreme stupidity, because it would result in death. Your analogy of the surgery killin the patient and the therapy being worse than the illness is inaccurate here, totally inaccurate. Removing the threat of Islam would not kill America nor would it be worse therapy than the illness itself.

"The difference between us is, that you state that all of them are evil, because by sheer logic of its teachings all Muslims are depraved., while I will not condemn them as a whole, no matter, how much evidence you list."

Islam by its very nature is depraved and evil. There is no escaping that fact except through the escape of delusion or insanity. That does not mean all practicing Muslims are depraved, because some only practice certain aspects of the religion. But by definition a "good, practicing Muslim" is an enemy of freedom and an enemy of the USA. Furthermore, I an not condemning them but rather positing a situation in which they are forced to reform their religion or lose their privelege of living in America. Living in America is not a right, it is a privelege, and priveleges can be taken away.

"Noah - I am studying for my exam tomorrow the constitution. Your proposed MO is in direct contradiction to what the US constitution declares, hence you clearly promote the abandoning of the principles of just the preamble and the Bill of Rights. I do not need to be a Supreme Court Judge to recognize that and see no way, how you could possibly argue yourself out of that paradox."

You keep claiming that, but you continue to fail to show me precisely how that abandons or contradicts the principles of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. Here is the preamble of the Bill of Rights:

We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty, to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.Note the words "insure domestic tranquility", "promote the general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty for ourselve and our posterity". All of that is accomplished by removing Islam from America. Conversely, all of that is at risk by allowing it to remain.

"Your point of view is clear, but so is mine. Since you are unable to prove to me 100% accuracy of your depiction of Islam, I can not entertain a strategy, Hitler would be proud of."

Michel, this is why talking to you is becoming pointless. Your replies make less and less sense as time goes by. First, look at what you wrote. What you're saying is that if I were able to "prove to you 100% accuracy" with regard to my depiction of Islam, you would agree to a strategy Hitler would be proud of.

Secondly, your portrayal of my strategy as "something Hitler would be proud of" is so inaccurate as to be offensive, and I believe you're doing that intentionally. I want you to show me how the enforced deportation of a group of subversives back to their homelands is in any way equivalent with rounding people up in order to gas them to death, conduct medical experiments on them, rape and kill them, and finally bury them all in mass graves. Either you must show that moral equivalence or admit that your comparison is improper and inaccurate. Otherwise, I will have to consider it a purposeful insult on your part, meant only to be offensive and nothing else. I also want you to explain to me how my deterrence strategy, which is no different than the M.A.D. deterrence strategy we shared with the USSR, is something Hitler would be proud of.

I for one am getting sick of these ridiculous, inaccurate, propaganda-strewn, thinly veiled insults of yours. It does nothing other than make you look stupid and the rest of us tired of trying to discuss this with you.

"We the people…. The patronized melting pot….have legal means at our disposal ( I know that is boring and not sexy) to never let that happen. We will not go down quite that easy, my friend."

Again, boy do you have a lot to learn about realities here in America!

"Yes – to be truthful – the examples you mentioned were unnecessary and insane. "Really? So you would have preferred to forgo the nuclear strikes and instead mount a ground invasion which would have killed millions more on both sides? Interesting! And yet you cannot deny that WWII was won in a way in which our enemies became some of our staunchest allies, whereas the weak response we have against Islam is failing to "win the hearts and minds", much less the war. "Adding insult to injury, as the outcome at that moment was predestined already."

Again, wrong. There were elements in their military trying to take over and continue the war. It would have resulted in years more fighting at the cost of millions more lives.

"Philosophically spoken I am to the opinion that the ascent of man towards Utopia is only possible, if he learns to overcome this one strong motivational force - as a species, culture, society and as an individual."

There is no such thing as a utopia on earth. That's a pipe dream believed only by fools. History shows us that. Human nature shows us that.

"If not buying into purpose justifies all means, is being a fool, then by all means, call me that. My principles and core values transcend my tiny little personal life. Before I betray them, everything my forefathers bled for, Yes - cheerio and bye bye."

I hardly think our forefathers would place the future of our nation at risk simply because they didn't have the nerve to deport a bunch of subversive enemy combatants. And your analogy is wrong again, because your "principles and values" damn all the rest of us, who believe in survival and who believe that America is worth saving at the cost of her enemies.

"Deploring passiveness and living a paranoia of believing that they are all enjoying it or trying to kill me, is a whole different ball game."

Who said they all realized what they were doing or that they all wanted to kill you? They are useful pawns. Useful because they don't bother to question their motivations or their religion. It is not paranoia to face reality.

"The silent majority is right here in our own backyards. Average Americans, no matter the creed or origin, too afraid, disinterested, self-absorbed. IN your own logic therefore your enemy, as they are not with you. ( Nor with me for that matter). So what do you suggest we do with them?"

They are not the enemy in that they are not plotting to destroy America, they are not trying to subvert our freedoms, and they are not transforming our culture into a foreign one. Yes, they do need to wake up though, because they are not helping matters.

"I say it for the very last time: This blog alone has delivered any radical Imam, domestic or abroad, enough material to indoctrinate his community for years to come as to the hateful, intolerant, outright paranoid nature of us "infidels"."

And you conveniently ignore the fact that they don't need the material on this blog to incite hate, paranoia, and violence. Most of them will never be allowed to see or read this blog in their native countries.

"If I was a muslim reading what you posted, my only reaction could be resentment, anger, hatred - exactly the breeding attitude for fanatism and terrorism."

And my answer to you would be "tough...go fix your crazy death cult".

"I find myself appalled and helpless in the face of such extreme opinions. How can diametrically opposing cultures and religions find dialogue and compromise, if not even we, members of the same society, Western republicans can not find common ground?"

Precisely why we are doomed. Is it sinking in yet?

"I will admit that I engaged in this debate out of scientific curiosity. I wanted to find out, if I could pick one of the extreme posters and apply any form of respectful technique to come to a form of platform, both parties could buy into. I tried every single tool within my arsenal of modern conflict resolution techniques to no avail whatsoever."

You were doomed from the get-go because one side (Islam) refuses to even participate. You are obstinately blind to the reality that Islam is not interested in conflict resolution, in repsectful technique, in win/win resolutions. They are only interested in making Islam the dominant religion of the world. You will never make sense out of this nor will you ever get anywhere with it until you come to that understanding.

"I tested the wide spread hypothesis that there is no reasoning with fanatism and found it clearly confirmed here. Insofar, I apologize to you. The whole thing was initially an experiment. But it became much more in the course of the debate. It became a frightening example and strong evidence for the fact that hatred is almost impossible to overcome, once it is imprinted."

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. I am hardly "fanatical" in the manner you propose. I am adamant in my views and insist on realism, I am not swayed by New Age psychobabble or moral relativist theory, and I am unrelenting in pursuing a course of action that preserves the culture and freedoms of my country. That is not "fanatical". Furthermore, you insist on ignoring what I have repeatedly said, which is that once Islam manages to reform itself into a benign, civilized culture and religion instead of a cncerous death cult, it would be welcome back in America. It is not hatred that motivates me, it is love. Love of freedom, love of country, love of reality, love of my fellow Americans. It is even a form of tough love for Muslims...it is in their best interests to be forced to reform their death cult into a peaceful religion. You refuse to see this truth. You prefer to throw out inaccurate and disparaging labels which do not represent anything I am saying.

"There is no way The Imam in Birmingham or our own people as represented by you can and will ever find common ground."

Sure we can. Reality is the common ground of sane people. If Islam reforms itself into a peaceful religion, I have no problem with it. Our common ground should be "what must be done to promote peace, happiness, freedom, and life to both America and Islam?". And the answer to that is "reform", which in reality must be an enforced reform, much like an alcoholic or drug addict needs an intervention, or a cult member needs a snapper to remove them from the cult. Reform is the only solution because Islam as it exists will always be an enemy to freedom and to America, and their fanaticism and the seriousness of their threats demand an extreme reaction. By deporting and isolating them, we force them to either reform or to remain isolated. Either way, America and the West is spared a lot of grief, and Islam is given a chance to fix itself. My method actually lessens the chances of nuclear annihilation despite the emphasis on the willingness to use it, and spares more lives than any other method you can name.

"I can only hope and pray that people like Plato stand in between as a buffer between arch enemies."

A buffer will always remain an obstacle. Not a good thing.

"You remained steadfast like a rock, not giving an inch, ready for the next crusade."

And damned proud of that fact!

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".


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Title Commenter Date Thread
2George Orwell : "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles." [82 words]mythJan 17, 2010 20:20167454
Beautifully said [133 words]PrashantAug 18, 2016 22:43167454
3How the West Could Lose [168 words]AnneSep 20, 2008 10:59138894
Interesting point of view... [85 words]TousifOct 21, 2009 02:53138894
1how the west could lose [78 words]jamesJun 21, 2010 23:48138894
4How the West could lose. I think you will be surprised at the final outcome. response to James. [101 words]Anne-USAJun 23, 2010 16:43138894
how the west could lost - response to Anne [67 words]jamesJun 24, 2010 01:12138894
1How the West Lost- There will be evil in the last days, we expect rough times. response to James [354 words]Anne- USAJun 24, 2010 19:26138894
1the left wing must be stopped and exposed [36 words]stefanoMar 4, 2008 00:21121684
The Leftwing must be stopped and exposed-----by Stephano [345 words]DebbieJul 20, 2008 10:16121684
Really America, really? [49 words]JasnaDec 26, 2008 20:14121684
1how many more must die... before we all see ? [180 words]Phil GreendOct 6, 2007 18:51110560
We need to put aside political correctness and discuss Islam [365 words]Dennis GravesSep 11, 2007 15:22108556
counter thought... [123 words]donvanOct 18, 2007 09:24108556
2ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [3 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 19:24108556
1We, the People. [122 words]Linda HaslamOct 20, 2007 00:16108556
1right on brother! [375 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 15:19108556
islam not a religon of peace [158 words]Nina niaziNov 20, 2007 10:06108556
1Brits deserve it!!! [186 words]JaladhiNov 20, 2007 20:22108556
3Islam: Religion of Peace? [85 words]Linda HaslamNov 27, 2007 09:42108556
2ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [207 words]nina niaziDec 2, 2007 17:40108556
God's children??? [139 words]Linda HaslamDec 6, 2007 11:11108556
2Jaladhi get an education old chap! [177 words]Leven-TorresApr 14, 2008 09:04108556
1try to learn scripture first [36 words]johnMay 18, 2008 05:02108556
1Don't misquote the Qur'an please. [832 words]KeithJul 22, 2008 18:22108556
islam excuses [2162 words]paul dunnNov 28, 2008 17:42108556
don't make any illusions [122 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:26108556
Ignorance: a dangerous thing [78 words]HamiyetMay 6, 2012 16:07108556
The War that we are Fighting [1925 words]Major DaveMay 23, 2007 17:3894113
My average American's opinion [768 words]kid berthaJun 12, 2007 16:1994113
So what is your solution? [1942 words]Major DaveJun 12, 2007 23:5394113
misunderstood [1256 words]kid berthaJun 14, 2007 11:1894113
My Respect [341 words]MichelAug 25, 2007 15:0694113
Oh, boy......... [76 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 19:5294113
1ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. [156 words]Nina NiaziOct 19, 2007 16:3694113
1Nina is correct. [432 words]kid berthaNov 5, 2007 14:4394113
ISLAM NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE [114 words]NinaNov 7, 2007 18:1994113
bravo [110 words]kcOct 21, 2009 01:0394113
Islam is not a relgion of Peace [20 words]sahilApr 10, 2011 13:5694113
2Monotheism vs Polytheism [225 words]IndianMay 17, 2007 03:5993309
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what is the truth? [51 words]najeebSep 15, 2009 09:1293309
Shiites [59 words]Dr Erich MeyerMay 8, 2007 23:5892175
1Why US should attack Islamic Iran now ??? [642 words]ShivaMay 4, 2007 10:1591639
1Finally a factual message has been posted [372 words]kid berthaMay 5, 2007 09:3291639
1Right on! [332 words]Nick4693Sep 13, 2007 22:5291639
there's no why! [84 words]SunaJan 18, 2010 15:3691639
Plato [302 words]SohailApr 22, 2007 06:2090156
To Sohail: All mixed up [210 words]PlatoApr 23, 2007 08:4390156
So why should the West be the winner???? [2 words]aliApr 16, 2007 10:0089384
Answers for Ali [93 words]Noah WilkApr 19, 2007 18:3889384
how i see it [74 words]warnerApr 20, 2007 01:0189384
Ali your answer is in the Taliban video [99 words]PlatoApr 22, 2007 01:5889384
Three words for you [3 words]RJMay 1, 2007 00:0889384
How the West could lose: Reply to Mr.Ali. [47 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 13, 2007 00:1689384
Why [35 words]aliJul 21, 2007 14:3489384
No... [93 words]adfJul 20, 2008 15:1789384
3why most of iranian hate arabs and islam? [17 words]persianDec 16, 2008 17:3189384
iranians hate arabs [4 words]joeSep 11, 2009 17:5189384
To Be the Big Dog or Not [628 words]MichaelApr 11, 2007 11:4989023
A muslim duty [581 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 00:0088762
Reality check and fantasy [50 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:1488762
make no sense [14 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2288762
Yes I read it in Arabic a language that you do not know [27 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:0988762
Honest answers, please! [343 words]Nick4693Sep 11, 2007 19:5788762
Now one question [106 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3388757
M&M and his bogus context again and Q9:4 or 5 if you wish [53 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:5188757
i dont even know [228 words]a muslim americanMar 27, 2007 22:1888086
Our dear M&M and Islamic meltdown part deux [19 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:1588086
1A NORMAL MUSLIM... [341 words]DONVANApr 5, 2007 14:0488086
oil and water [86 words]todd morrisonOct 16, 2007 23:2588086
wow.... [51 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 15:3388065
It says ya ayuha al-nass! [105 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 17:5788065
dhimmi, READ YOUR OWN EVIDENCE FIRST [225 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:3088065
For Our dear M&M and his bogus arabic and the Qur'an really says that islam is the religion of the Arabs only and you ain't one [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:4188065
The poor Arabic translation of Picktall another wannabe Arab! [446 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 07:2688065
For our dear M&m and argument from silence! And Islam is indeed the religion of the Hijazi Arabs as per Q14:4 and you ain't one [30 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2007 18:1488065
One more time pt 2 [243 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:2788016
fantasy world of islam [286 words]susanMar 28, 2007 15:2688016
Still in denial, "Moderate" Muslim [357 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 16:5988016
yeah ok [26 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:1988016
3Why are you making excuses, Moderate Muslim? [322 words]Noah WilkMar 31, 2007 17:5688016
were you at the rallies? [40 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:0388016
Ok, so What? [11 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0388016
the usual cheap excuse [11 words]susanApr 3, 2007 02:5688016
Ignorance is no excuse [168 words]Noah WilkApr 5, 2007 14:5188016
I will not stand for hate. [42 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:3688016
Moderate Muslim corners himself! [393 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:2488016
Misunderstanding [311 words]moderate MuslimApr 7, 2007 21:1588016
easy [51 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:1888016
the 1960's [27 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:2488016
not an "image" problem [297 words]susanApr 9, 2007 07:2088016
Speaking of hate and the Qur'an [83 words]dhimmi no moreApr 9, 2007 18:1988016
Why not burn effigies? [80 words]Noah WilkApr 9, 2007 20:5288016
noah [62 words]moderate MuslimApr 10, 2007 21:4888016
Back to Morous (12 seconds on the shot clock) [3677 words]moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 22:1287974
Our dear M&M and cut and paste jobs Paki/Arabic and the bogus hadith! [522 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:2387974
an addendum and my source for the hadith literary criticism [20 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 07:0687974
My compliments to the sheik (morous 360 dunk in moderate's face, the crowd goes wild) [1370 words]MOROUSMar 28, 2007 16:3987974
To Moderate Muslim: [894 words]PlatoMar 30, 2007 04:2287974
No, I respect many [89 words]moderate MuslimMar 30, 2007 19:2587974
To Moderate Muslim: But Allah hates other religions [234 words]PlatoApr 1, 2007 02:0587974
numbers matter [54 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1387974
Here's your answer Plato [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:0987974
heh, ok right, that is so bogus [40 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2487974
let's start from... [46 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:1587974
And speaking of bogus! [86 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:2987974
your answer [535 words](moderate) Muslim (though all real Muslims are moderate)Apr 5, 2007 22:0887974
christian arabs are first victims of muslims [243 words]susanApr 8, 2007 07:2687974
Islam and Terror [1398 words]moderate Muslim AmericanMar 22, 2007 17:4387720
Hamza Yusuf a Muslim scholar? LOL! [187 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 19:2287720
5Nothing's more fun than debunking "Muslim Logic" [2959 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 21:1887720
To Moderate Muslim: It is just a wish-list you have given us [2577 words]PlatoMar 24, 2007 06:4087720
M&M and David Chappelle exposed [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 25, 2007 09:1487720
high muslim clerics agree with bin laden [394 words]susanMar 27, 2007 15:2487720
ok? [44 words]moderate Muslim-Mar 27, 2007 22:0087720
you just proved how ignorant islamphobes are [82 words]Islamophobic ignoranceMar 28, 2007 15:2687720
Precisely why we condemn you [380 words]Noah WilkMar 28, 2007 17:1887720
The little olive institute [32 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:4587720
Our dear M&M and Yusuf Hamza's ancestry [25 words]dhimmi no moreMar 28, 2007 17:5187720
thanks.. [8 words]moderate MuslimMar 28, 2007 19:2087720
Islamophobia, really? [298 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2007 07:2287720
Because , the most comfortable position for a coward is to struggle to be portrayed a "moderate" (&) Moslem. [611 words]Ynna(tchkah)Mar 29, 2007 13:4087720
poor reply [71 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:4287720
like you said something... [91 words]susanMar 29, 2007 13:5087720
we need ears to listen and eyes to see [252 words]Islamophobia no more...Mar 29, 2007 16:3887720
chechnya is sufi [20 words]susanApr 1, 2007 10:1487720
I dont think you get it (Ynna (tchkah) [129 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2387720
and why? [41 words]moderate MuslimApr 2, 2007 19:2787720
Our dear Islamophobia no more and his little diatribes [48 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2007 19:5487720
Congratulations for not going to work to CAIR [108 words]Ynna (tchkah)Apr 3, 2007 03:0287720
skewed perception of Islamophobes [138 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:0387720
africa's fault is african [146 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:2287720
an Islamophobe [259 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 3, 2007 03:3287720
cair wants sharia [39 words]susanApr 3, 2007 03:3987720
More diatribes from our dear INM aka M&M [103 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2007 18:4387720
YOU DON'T GET THE POINT [19 words]moderate MuslimApr 3, 2007 20:2787720
For our dear INM and what is an Islamophobe part deux [343 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 07:5387720
no matter how you turn it [67 words]susanApr 4, 2007 14:5187720
nobody is irrationally vilifying islam [234 words]susanApr 4, 2007 15:0887720
sharia allows slavery [18 words]susanApr 4, 2007 17:3987720
Dropping names and Si, comprende mucho! [111 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2007 17:4887720
fallacy of bias history-reading [108 words]Islamophobia no moreApr 5, 2007 01:5987720
islamophobia, the stupidest word ever invented [124 words]susanApr 5, 2007 16:3087720
Cair and other people [171 words]moderate MuslimApr 5, 2007 22:1587720
CAIR [374 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 14:5587720
Why then do you support it? [290 words]Noah WilkApr 6, 2007 15:0387720
cair = sharia = stone age [70 words]susanApr 6, 2007 15:1987720
Noah [124 words]moderate MuslimApr 6, 2007 23:4087720
M&M CAIR (big time LOL) and his flawed logic! [344 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 08:3787720
Yes, Moderate Muslim, you ARE responsible! [516 words]Noah WilkApr 7, 2007 16:4587720
ROTFL [44 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3787720
al-Shari3a [10 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2007 18:3987720
CAIR and mockery [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2007 11:4087720
i'll see [37 words]moderate MuslimApr 8, 2007 22:3487720
Why aren't moderate muslims standing up? [55 words]Bob SterlingAug 20, 2007 23:5187720
why should the west win anyways if it continues with its current programme of warmongering? [434 words]cocoMay 6, 2009 12:0187720
islam & terror [627 words]John EdwardsOct 27, 2009 15:1387720
so here are you answers more if you want em [29 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:3287302
Moderate Muslim fails again! [1415 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 15:3287302
mauritania has got legal slavery, allowed in islam [15 words]susanMar 21, 2007 16:5787302
MM [230 words]JaladhiMar 21, 2007 18:0187302
handshake with Kuffar? "Muslim debate schemes" and other sordid matters! [599 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2007 07:5187302
morocco 50% literacy rate [18 words]susanMar 22, 2007 10:0387302
"Muslim debate schemes"! part deux [452 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:1087302
Dhimmi No More - defenders of the faith have left town!!! [40 words]JaladhiMar 26, 2007 16:5687302
Your answer Plato (which is a really bad name for you, because it dishonores someone who actually thought [169 words]Moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:1887298
Was the post for me? [45 words]PlatoMar 21, 2007 08:3087298
Try paying attention, Moderate Muslim [570 words]Noah WilkMar 21, 2007 17:5587298
blatantly clear? LOL [178 words]dhimmi no moreMar 21, 2007 19:5087298
To MM: Would Mohammed be a good name for me? [130 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 14:0087298
you guys hate the truth, dontcha [23 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1087298
clarification [36 words]Moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1287298
No, Im not beyond help, although I dont need much [73 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1587298
Free will in islam? LOL [379 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 08:1587298
you like lies don'tcha? [148 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2187298
To Syed [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:3086570
LOL syed is asking for caliphate [8 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1686570
Syed? LOL He has no credibility! [172 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:5086570
Syeds are not Iranians?? [83 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:1886570
What? [35 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2486570
For our dear M&M and islam [73 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 17:4886570
To Moderate Muslim: Spreading Islam by avoiding unpleasant facts [389 words]PlatoMar 22, 2007 13:3586570
Sure, Syed's the perfect choice [230 words]JeffMar 27, 2007 18:2386570
i wasnt..... [77 words]moderate MuslimMar 27, 2007 22:0286570
THE JOKE'S ON YOU (DHIMMI) [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2786568
And your point is? [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 12:4086568
You dont know me, you dont even care [110 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3686568
avoiding the sex slaves matter [52 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1186568
Uno Questiono por legion of doom [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2586566
To Moderate Muslim: Global warming a belief? [63 words]PlatoMar 17, 2007 23:1186566
The Official Stance of the Legion of Doom On Global Warming [59 words]Noah WilkMar 18, 2007 10:1786566
youre just not answering [43 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2986566
heheh, thanks plato [25 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:3086566
You were indeed given an answer [209 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:2986566
They're not scared [107 words]Noah WilkMar 20, 2007 15:3686566
sex slaves conspiracy [101 words]susanMar 20, 2007 16:1486566
?? [72 words]moderate MuslimMar 22, 2007 17:1986566
Yes, you are on trial [223 words]Noah WilkMar 23, 2007 18:5786566
islam is not on trial, it's already convicted [14 words]susanMar 25, 2007 10:2686566
heh please [45 words]moderate MuslimMar 26, 2007 19:1686566
Spain and Arabian imperialism and justifying the absurd [69 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2007 20:4886566
spain? islam flourished? [2978 words]susanMar 28, 2007 02:5786566
Islam is peace [103 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 21:3686334
disproved [331 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:2486334
Islam and violence and silence [116 words]dhimmi no moreMar 18, 2007 17:3486334
uh NO [7 words]moderate MuslimMar 19, 2007 19:2586334
Our dear M&M has never been to a madrassa! [81 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2007 14:2286334
A Peaceful Muslim Country (oh my) [259 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:2185929
...muslim [492 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085929
very poor example [255 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:4085929
Dave Chapelle? and who the heck is he? And why should we like him or hate him for this matter [235 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 19:3985929
MALAYSIA A PEACEFUL MUSLIM COUNTRY???LOL [110 words]MOROUSMar 13, 2007 16:5385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East [142 words]JaladhiMar 13, 2007 19:1385929
Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys. [972 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3285929
MY EMAILS? [13 words]muslimMar 13, 2007 21:2385929
Malaysia is Saudi Arabia of East - Pt. 2 [133 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 16:2785929
The good ole pillars of islam! [84 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:4385929
kennedy quote? [659 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:4485929
why does everyone not get it [32 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:4085929
huh?? [339 words]morousMar 15, 2007 12:2285929
Our dear M&M and you ain't Muqatil [61 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 20:0485929
To Morous-Clarify a few things [291 words]moderate MuslimMar 15, 2007 21:2585929
your clarification Moderate [664 words]MorousMar 17, 2007 11:4685929
one clarification: malaysia has got sharia law [41 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:1985929
literal interpretation [68 words]susanMar 18, 2007 10:2285929
Reply to Reply : morous [116 words]moderate MuslimMar 18, 2007 17:1585929
women as humans? [31 words]susanMar 20, 2007 04:5185929
It's Back in your court MODERATE [616 words]MorousMar 20, 2007 13:2585929
Malaysia? [171 words]surjApr 20, 2007 22:3485929
More Answers (Aisha) (ra) [2787 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 21:0685919
aisha the child [103 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3385919
To Moderate Muslim: Hiding the shame of Aisha's age and a Maulana abrogates 9:29 [989 words]PlatoMar 13, 2007 01:1385919
3A'isha and real history! and playing with dolls! [648 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 07:2885919
Lies will not change historical age of Aisha at the time of her marriage [157 words]JaladhiMar 20, 2007 15:4385919
The Ultimate Post- No Hiding, No Crying, Just Answers [8353 words]moderate MuslimMar 8, 2007 22:1385330
I'm cherry picking Moderate Muslim's huge post [2178 words]Noah WilkMar 9, 2007 04:1485330
For our dear M&M and his bogus command of Islamic theology [454 words]dhimmi no moreMar 9, 2007 18:0085330
To Moderate Muslim: Ethical basis of Islam and the thrashing of women by men [2001 words]PlatoMar 10, 2007 07:3085330
For our dear Moderate Msulim and what is really a moderate Muslim?And other sordid matters [885 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 07:4085330
More Answers-To Dhimmi [293 words]moderate MuslimMar 10, 2007 13:2085330
Our dear M&M and he is really a "bait"? and Jihad or holy war revisited part deux [653 words]dhimmi no moreMar 10, 2007 14:1585330
moderate [592 words]susanMar 10, 2007 15:0185330
For our dear M&M and Q2:216 ...part one! [832 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 09:2885330
dhimmi ... [26 words]susanMar 11, 2007 10:3985330
For our dear M&M and Q9:4 part deux! [541 words]dhimmi no moreMar 11, 2007 14:4185330
moderate Muslim [61 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4285330
Condemnable Offenses. Controlling Men [91 words]moderate MuslimMar 11, 2007 17:4585330
you have no idea what a race is again [13 words]susanMar 12, 2007 03:3885330
M&M and more fantasy [262 words]dhimmi no moreMar 12, 2007 07:5285330
To Moderate Muslim: Fight to make your neighbours submit to Allah [179 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 10:1585330
response to moderate muslim [555 words]morousMar 12, 2007 16:2585330
invented by modern people? [111 words]susanMar 12, 2007 18:3085330
yeah, so? [97 words]moderate MuslimMar 12, 2007 19:2485330
To Moderate Muslim: On rape and chopping off hands [583 words]PlatoMar 12, 2007 23:1885330
Uh no [17 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3385330
the joke is on you morous [36 words]moderate MuslimMar 13, 2007 19:3685330
Hypocritical Muslim [56 words]Noah WilkMar 13, 2007 20:4385330
origins [183 words]dhimmi no moreMar 13, 2007 21:5885330
Racism! Really? [147 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 12:3185330
i am 100% correct [57 words]susanMar 14, 2007 16:2285330
More evidence [47 words]dhimmi no moreMar 14, 2007 16:5685330
Hypocrisy - thy name is.... [46 words]JaladhiMar 14, 2007 17:3185330
1Jesus is god? [26 words]moderate muslimMar 14, 2007 19:3185330
not quite making sense - at all [129 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3785330
lies [30 words]moderate MuslimMar 14, 2007 19:3885330
His words? [226 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 07:3985330
Muslims suppress free debate on anti Semitism at Leeds University, UK [163 words]DelboyMar 15, 2007 09:4985330
MM [135 words]susanMar 15, 2007 16:1485330
2My dear M&M and i'm glad that you asked and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God! [93 words]dhimmi no moreMar 15, 2007 19:5985330
Uh what? [38 words]moderate MuslimMar 16, 2007 19:2185330
MM - Read Dhimmi No More's(who knows Arabic) posts to understand Q9:4 [92 words]JaladhiMar 19, 2007 17:4885330
Respond to what? [58 words]dhimmi no moreMar 19, 2007 20:1485330
For our dear M&M and the Qur'an really says that jesus is God and the bogus tawheed [140 words]dhimmi no moreMar 20, 2007 07:5185330
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KORAN SAYS [22 words]MOROUSMar 20, 2007 14:0285330
The fundamentally faulty logic of the person called dhimmi no more [201 words]moderate MuslimMar 20, 2007 19:0185330
Astaghfirullah is M&M's lame answer [239 words]dhimmi no moreMar 23, 2007 07:2885330
Flat? Hardly [31 words]Moderate MuslimMar 25, 2007 21:5385330
Hand Chopping and Adultery [74 words]Mukhtar Ahmed KashifJul 30, 2009 12:4785330
Why I am proud to be a member of the Legion of Doom! [354 words]Noah WilkMar 8, 2007 21:0985321
The wake up call [15 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 26, 2007 16:2579077
You're talking, but you're not saying anything, Moderate Muslim [499 words]Noah WilkFeb 26, 2007 20:3579077
PEACEFUL NATION? YEAH, COMPARED TO THE HUNS [53 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 07:3279077
homework for moderate muslim [155 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 15:3479077
MM, you very well described actions of Muslims [98 words]JaladhiFeb 28, 2007 17:4279077
mob muslim contradiction [97 words]susanFeb 28, 2007 18:1079077
to mod.muslim [145 words]AnnaFeb 28, 2007 19:3479077
Susan [507 words]Moderate MuslimFeb 28, 2007 20:3479077
For our dear M&M and more fantasy [371 words]dhimmi no moreMar 1, 2007 06:0279077
peace.. [125 words]donvanMar 1, 2007 09:1879077
YES [87 words]Moderate MuslimMar 1, 2007 19:5079077
Strive to forgive what? [15 words]dhimmi no moreMar 2, 2007 17:2279077
don't believe you [65 words]susanMar 3, 2007 12:4879077
Response to Susan [153 words]moderate MuslimMar 5, 2007 20:0779077
educated fanatics.. [14 words]donvanMar 6, 2007 15:0079077
Anti-Semitic propaganda from our "Moderate" Muslim [340 words]Noah WilkMar 7, 2007 12:5179077
so many mistakes again [263 words]susanMar 7, 2007 15:0279077

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