Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Jan 12, 2007 at 05:23
Canadian Chris wrote:
"Mr. Wilk, the slippery slope you are suggesting is akin to condemning all of Christianity for the outrageous actions of Jim Jones, or David Koresh, or any future radical of Christianity that rears its ugly head."
Chris, if there is anything that irritates me, it is inaccurate statements that are poorly researched.
Let us look at Jim Jones for example. Jones was not a Christian. He was ordained by the Disciples of Christ denomination, that is true. However, he was clearly mentally ill. He started to believe he was the reincarnation of Buddha, Jesus Christ, Lenin, and some Egyptian god. He was not even practicing actual Christianity at the time of the events in Guyana, but rather some strange blend of drug-induced delusions coupled with Marxist/Socialist theory and the teachings of a man who called himself Father Divine (and who also claimed to be God himself).
The Disciples of Christ denounced him and were in the process of excommunicating him at the time of the Guyana events.
To call Jim Jones a Christian simply because he started out in a Christian system of belief is akin to calling the Pope a Nazi simply because he was born in Germany!
Likewise, Koresh was also clearly insane. He believed he was the messiah due to a vision he received from God. He also wanted to "unify" Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. His behavior in his compund clearly showed that he was unstable and not in any way practicing a Christian lifestyle. Some of his wacked-out followers believe he is returning to earth some day. This is clearly not Christianity. It is important to note that other factions of the Branch Davidians did not accept him, and that Koresh himself started to call his followers "Students of the Seven Seals" instead of Branch Davidians.
In both cases (Jones and Koresh), the Christian church denounced them and disassociated from them. Neither was accepted as a true Christian, but instead were denounced as crazy cult leaders and homicidal maniacs. There were no Christians parading the streets shooting guns and celebrating the causes of Koresh and Jones, the Christians did not hang posters of these two madmen all over the country in praise of their actions, and Christians worldwide certainly did not start naming their children after these two lunatics.
Compare that to Islam, where such madmen and murderers are worshipped as martyrs, where they name their children after monsters like Bin Laden and Saddam, and where their high ranking clerics proclaim that a nuclear terror strike on America is justified through the teachings of Islam.
Your comparison is poorly thought out, completely erroneous, and patently ridiculous.
"The inability to distinguish an enemy is not cause to condemn an entire cross section of humanity."
I have said it before and I will say it again. The bulk of Muslims are not working on reforming their religion. Most of them condone, support, applaud, or at the very least permit terrorism. Once again, let us deal with reality, where a Pew Center poll in 2005 showed that 88% of Jordanians believed in using violence against civilians. Why do people like you always avoid the facts of the matter?
"The Israelis have had to fight this kind of battle for years trying, often unsuccessfully, to avoid civilian casualties in a guerrilla type conflict"
And that is why they are losing.
This next part I am not sure if it comes from you or if you are quoting someone else, since the quotes in your post are messed up a bit. I'm not sure which parts are your response and which are quotes, so I'll just assume which is which and reply.
"I have seen organized rallies and large gatherings of people begging for the radicals to stop. It is not as prevalent as would be desired but it is there and growing in strength."
Where have these supposed marches, large gatherings, and rallies been? I've not seen them. We tried to have one in Arizona in 2002 and virtually none of the 50,000 Muslims in that community showed up. As for "begging" the radicals to stop...you do not "beg" such people to stop. You stop them by force. This is what Islam must do. It must forcibly remove the radicals and the terrorists if it ever hopes to reform. But the average Muslim refuses to do this.
"The voters chose him and he must have some qualities that are desirable."
No big surprise. He was a Democrat in a strongly Democratic state, a state rampant with Muslims who are building mosques like there is no tomorrow. Add that to the fact that the average American is completely stupid and there you go. It was a travesty to allow this man to swear in on the Koran. When asked whether he would side with the Koran or the Constitution of the United States given a conflict between the two, he refused to answer. And already he is engaging in revisionist history by claiming Jefferson used the Koran in part to found the laws of this country.
"Even with the bad rep that America has in the Muslim world, I bet that you would be hard pressed to find many Muslims in your neighbourhood that hate America."
Would you like to bet money on that? I can use a nice, expensive vacation. You almost cannot throw a stone in some of the suburbs around Chicago without hitting a Muslim who denounces America and supports terrorists like Bin Laden and Arafat.
"So, now can you tell me how often a Muslim organization formed from American Muslims has consistently disobeyed American law? Not including peaceful protest."
You're clearly oblivious of the true strategy of the enemy. They are not here to go against the law. They are subtly subverting our country in an effort to colonize us. Look at the background of CAIR, the largest Muslim group in America. Look at what it supports (terrorists) and look at the claims and statements of its chairman (who publicly said their goal is to install Islam/Sharia as the dominant law in America).
This is precisely why their tactics are working...because people like you cannot understand how they think.
"Well all I can say to this is that either the system of government that you love so much is broken or the system of government that you love is working to do precisely what it is supposed to do, protect the rights of citizens of America"
It is neither. The problem is that the politicians and those in government are not obeying the law of the land as framed in our Constitution. The problem is that both the Democrats and the Republicans are owned by special interests which do not care about America. If we had the Constitution Party in charge, the problem would be solved. So it's not a matter of the system not working...it works perfectly as framed by the Founding Fathers. It is failing now simply because it is not being followed. The fault lies with the corrupt globalist politicians and the stupid masses who have grown fat and lazy, and not with the system itself.
"Have you met Mexicans? They are fantastic"
Send me your address, Mr. Canadian, and I will send them all up to live with you. I always find it odd, how snotty and cocky Canadians are when it comes to judging the USA. They always seem to believe they know more than those of us who live here and see things directly. Mexicans are not "fantastic". They are coming over in droves illegally, they are bringing with them massive amounts of crime, disease, poverty, and other problems. They are refusing to assimilate, they are overburdening the health care system which causes hospitals to close and real citizens to be denied health care, they are destroying the economy to a tune of tens of billions of dollars a year, they are suppressing wages, they are dumbing down our schools, and they are destroying our American culture. None of this is "fantastic" to any sane person.
"They may be expanding but remember that is exactly how your forebears became Americans."
Wrong again. Our forebears came to America legally, learned to speak English, they swore allegiance to America first, and they contributed positively to the country. None of this is true of the Mexicans.
"Did you read about the female Muslim astronaut from America? Do you know about Muslims who are studying cosmology in America to better understand out place in the universe? Have you seen the Muslims in philosophy classes at colleges and universities across your country?"
Chris, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I was clearly not talking about America. You were responding to my statement that wherever Islam dominates, it inflicts misery on the people. Did any Muslim country put a man in space? Try looking at reality. Try taking my challenge and showing me one single Muslim country where freedom, tolerance, education, and peace reign. Or are you going to run away from the challenge like all the other Islamic apologists here?
"I could go on with this but I don't believe that I will change your mind and I also believe that there are people intelligent enough to see through your comments to your motivation."
I'm sure your interpretation of my "motivation" is as unclear and inaccurate as your perception of reality and your knowledge of events, as evidenced in your Jim Jones comparison.
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