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Just more evasion as usual

Reader comment on item: Europe is Finished, Predicts Mark Steyn
in response to reader comment: Response to Noah

Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Nov 28, 2006 at 08:16

Avenger, you're doing nothing more than obfuscating and evading the issues, as I expected from any Muslim commentator. You present a calmer tone than people like Mu'een and Pir, but that does not change the fact that your responses are all excessive obfuscation and evasion and nothing else.

Let's go over it... In response to my question about why the majority of Palestinian children dream of being suicide bombers and other violent political dreams, you present the typical Muslim propaganda and lies, all of which are disproven by historical fact.

First I'll shoot down your lies, then I will answer my own question properly, since you seem unable to. Your claim that: "It must be remembered that the establishment of the state of Israel was done by an illegal occupation of foreign lands by Western and European Ashkenazim Jews." Is an outright lie.

First, there was never a country or state of Arabs/Muslims called "Palestine". Second, the people who today call themselves "Palestinians" are mainly Jordanian, and 30-40% of them are Egyptians and Syrians who only arrived in modern times for jobs. Third, there was no "illegal occupation". You are denying historical fact.

Before WWI, the area we now call the Middle East was part of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire. The British and the French beat the Turks, and split the land they won. The area now called Syria and Lebanon went to France, and the British took Iraq, "Palestine", Egypt and the Arabian peninsula. As a reward for helping the British defeat the Turks, the British gave Ibn Saud the Arabian peninsula and turned it into Saudi Arabia. Feisal of the Hashemites was given Iraq. The British then gave 80% of Palestine to Abdullah of the Hashemites and created Transjordan (later simply Jordan). In 1917, the British had issued the Balfour Declaration, which was to establish a Jewish homeland in the area known as Palestine.

In 1922, the League of Nations granted Britain the mandate over Palestine, which specifically included the establishment of a Jewish nation in Palestine. After Britain relinquished the Palestine Mandate, the UN proposed a plan in which the Jews would be given the just 20% of the leftovers of Palestine (the Arabs got 80% with Transjordan/Jordan). The Jews were so desperate to have a homeland, they accepted this tiny sliver of the original plan (which would have given them something like 5 times as much land).

And of course, we all know how the Arabs/Muslims reacted to the establishment of Israel. Six cowardly countries ganged up on Israel and got their backsides handed to them. So this pathetic claim that Israel is an "illegal occupation" is utter nonsense as well as historically and factually untrue. Also, the Peel Commission showed that between 1880 and 1948, 73% of the land the Jews BOUGHT from the Arabs in the area was owned by rich Arabs, not poor peasants, and the Israelis paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre of arid or semi-arid land, at a time when rich fertile land in Iowa was being sold for a mere $100 an acre. More than 70% of the land was owned by the British, almost 9% by Jews, and 16% by Arabs who left the area.

Under international law, the land became the property of Israel. Now, let me tell you why Muslim children (Palestinians) dream of being suicide bombers. It's because their culture and religion teaches them to desire that. It's because they see suicide bombers being worshipped as heroes. It's because they're taught in their schools that it is an honor to be a suicide bombers. It's because the clerics in their mosques and madrassahs teach them that suicide bombings are mandated by Allah and result in 72 virgins in paradise. That's why they have such dreams, because their minds are poisoned by their culture, their religion, their own families.

As is usually the case with Muslims, your reply evades the truth, obfuscates the issue, and endorses lies and propaganda.

On the subject of Muslims siding with Nazis during WWII, you once again go into a side rant unrelated to the question. The answer is that the Muslims sided with the Nazis because the Muslims wanted the Jews wiped off the face of the earth through the evil genocidal program of the Nazis. There's no point in arguing this since we have letters from Muslim leaders to the Nazis saying exactly that, we have pictures of the Muslims shaking hands with Hitler, we have proof of their corroboration.

Concerning the "religion of peace" question, you have not addressed the fact that the Koran calls for conversion by the sword, death, or dhimmitude, you have not addressed the fact that Muslim schools in all Muslims countries have textbooks and globes that show a state called Palestine and no Israel.

You have not addressed the fact that the PLO still does not recognize Israel's right to exist, nor does hamas, etc. Instead, you revert back to lies about "illegal occupations" which are provably wrong. In response to the problem with Muslims committing genocide in Sudan, you skirt the issue and go right back to the knee-jerk response about Christians committing genocide in the past, which is not, and has not been, a point of contention as I have repeatedly said.

If Islam is the "religion of peace", then there would not be an anti-Christian genocide going on in Sudan. Muslims cannot get along with anyone, not even other Muslims. You can't answer that because it's an undeniable fact. In your response to sexual perversions in Islam, you ignore the issue totally by not addressing the rampancy of rape in places where Islam exists, you ignore the sex slave trade in Saudi Arabia, you ignore the high rates of pedophilia (starting with Mohammed himself). In other words, you ducked the question.

I already covered the arms issues, and showed where Russia has surpassed America as the leading arms dealer, but you have ignored that in favor of outdated information. It's too early in the morning for me to waste more time giving any your non-responsive propaganda any more point by point analysis. Your reference to "democratically elected" terrorist groups does not render them non-terrorists. In a country full of terrorists and terrorist supporters, it would be more suprising had those terrorist groups NOT won election once given the chance to vote.

Finally, there is no point in discussion this any further with you, because you said this: "Wiping Israel off the map does not mean a holocaust."

Anyone who claims that wiping an entire nation off the map is not a holocaust or genocide is either literally insane, or simply ignorant of the meaning of the word "holocaust". In any case, you've proven yourself to be an anti-Semitic fanatic who spews typical anti-Semitic propaganda. Thus, I dismiss you. We're still waiting for an intelligent Muslim commentator to actually address the issue without obfuscating, evading, and spewing lies and propaganda. I won't hold my breath!

Submitting....

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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