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Reader comment on item: Muslim-Controlled Governments Subsidize Conversions of Kafirs
in response to reader comment: For 'Abd al-Rahman and who is really a kaffir?

Submitted by Abdul Rahman Reijerink (Australia), Jul 19, 2006 at 07:32

my argument about connotation/denotation has been turning over in my mind for days now. It has finally struck me why I am probably correct and "dhimmi" is wrong.

for Kaffir to mean (ie denotation as opposed to its common assumed meaning or connotation):-

"1. Non-Muslims (as if anyone cares).

2. Muslims under certain conditions as in the case of those who celebrate Muhammad's birthday and those who visit the tombs of Sufi saints (ah the warm and fuzzy Islam)."

the prophet Muhammad saws must have coined the word himself, just looking at your construction of it shows that it post dates the prophet saws. Therefore these are connotative meanings, so what does the actual word itself mean? If he (swas) did not coin the word, then it cannot mean specifically what is asserted above, as muslims as we understand them did not exist before then.

This is so obviously a wahhabi interpretation of the word and therefore a modern construction, how could kaffir apply to a group of people (who outnumber wahhabis) who see themselves as muslims if that meaning predates their practise? How can it be generalised as the proper meaning of the word from a small groups interpretation of it (esp. point two)?

i know this is not the clearest expression that this deserves but anyone who is engaging in dialogue should be able to understand what I am trying to say.


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Reader comments (37) on this item

Title By Date
Malaysian Govt. PaysPreachers for Marrying Kafirs [18 words]S.C.PandaAug 18, 2006 01:46
... Wrong fact! [44 words]fade leyAug 6, 2006 00:47
minorities in malaysia [54 words]RAJESH GOGNAJul 1, 2006 06:07
Discrimination in Muslim majority country [167 words]GopalJul 1, 2006 01:46
Malaysian Government Pays Preachers for Marrying Kafirs [23 words]steven lJun 30, 2006 22:00
Kaffirs reference offensive
[w/response] [101 words]
Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:59
For Abdul Rahman: is the word kaffir offensive? [780 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2006 07:41
your interpretation is wrong [61 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 07:33
Abdul Rahman: Islam and the turth! And how do you propose that one can cover the truth? [142 words]dhimmi no moreJul 4, 2006 17:37
wrong [230 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 6, 2006 05:47
For Abd al-Rahman (this is the proper transliteration of your name) [710 words]dhimmi no moreJul 6, 2006 18:48
hostile and nasty [638 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:07
Dr. Pipes [71 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:14
For Abd al-Rahman: Do you really know what are really diacriticla points and not marks as you claim? [216 words]dhimmi no moreJul 14, 2006 21:55
For 'Abd al-Rahman and the poor muslim theology [765 words]dhimmi no moreJul 15, 2006 08:01
What is a decent translation? [60 words]Kevin MJul 15, 2006 20:55
addressed to the arrogant one [286 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 16, 2006 06:20
For Kevin: And a good translation of the Qur'an [696 words]dhimmi no moreJul 16, 2006 08:11
For 'Abd al-Rahman and who is really a kaffir? [73 words]dhimmi no moreJul 17, 2006 06:43
read properly [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 18, 2006 22:12
⇒ refutation [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 19, 2006 07:32
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "connotation and denotation" Chutzpah and other sordid matters [1169 words]dhimmi no moreJul 19, 2006 18:52
please explain [190 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 20, 2006 05:32
For 'Abd al-Rahman and Chutzpah!!! [562 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2006 07:25
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "covering of sins" and the word kaffir!! [168 words]dhimmi no moreJul 22, 2006 07:15
read what I wrote truthfully [182 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 22, 2006 18:26
For 'Abd al-Rahman: "covering up the truth?" And Muslim logic!! [594 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2006 18:46
For Abd al-Rahman [225 words]MoayiddOct 9, 2007 09:01
Our dear Moayidd and gem time [283 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 07:56
More gems from our dear Moayidd and big time falsafa [325 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 18:56
Slight correction [24 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 20:13
Our dear Mo'ayyid and his examination in Syriac and Egyptian and Arabic and Judeo-Arabic [173 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2007 18:37
Clarification [168 words]MoayiddSep 7, 2009 00:36
Our dear Mo'ayyid and the word Kufr [1071 words]dhimmi no moreSep 12, 2009 08:51
Oh I'm waiting for your naswer our dear Mo'ayyid [211 words]dhimmi no moreSep 26, 2009 20:28
sayed in iran [38 words]cyrusJun 30, 2006 10:05
Myth of moderate Malaysia [103 words]VijayJun 30, 2006 05:36

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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