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For 'Abd al-Rahman and the poor muslim theology

Reader comment on item: Muslim-Controlled Governments Subsidize Conversions of Kafirs
in response to reader comment: hostile and nasty

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 15, 2006 at 08:01

So you provide Q 5:69 to support your assertion about what the word Kafir really means. Well let us examine it.

These are the difficulties with your assertion:

1. The Qur'an is not an Arabic dictionary that defines Arabic words. Examples here: would you be able to find for me the following words: Safra (jaundice), Tuhal (Spleen), Shabakiya (Retina) in the Qur'an? Let me help you: you will not find them, because these words were _invented_ by Huenin ibn Ishaq (he was a Christian...gasp!!!) during his translation of the Greek learning at Dar al-Hikma in Baghdad in the 9th century some 300 years after the death of Muhammad and these words would have had no meaning to Muhammad or his generation. But they are now perfect Arabic words and you would find them in Lisan al-'Arab.

2. The you are using a poor translation (Ali's translation is one of the worst translations of the Qur'an).

For the readers: Yusuf Ali was an Indian Muslim who only lived in India and England. He never lived in an Arabic speaking country as far as I know and Arabic was not his first language and neither was English. And the end result is a very poor translation that is full of his own personal biases and mis translations. So you see you must examine the source behind the source. But they seem to teach you in Islam not to be critical.

3. Any translation of the Qur'an is not the Qur'an anymore. The Qur'an must be read in Arabic (Arab imperialism!) So what do we get here? It becomes what the Islamic tradition calls: Ta'weel or as they say: "al-tafseer lel sahaba wa al-ta'well lel 'ulama" Oh I forgot that you know no Arabic. You check this one with your Mullah.

4. And last and most important point: The funny doctirne of abrogation or naskh wa mansukh. Sura 9 is the last revealed sura so any "revelation" in 9 will aborgate previous revelations that cover the same subject matter. More later.

Now let us examine what your have quoted and see if your Allah defines the word Kafir in 5;69 and I will provide you with my own linear translation:

Inna al-ladhiin: Those

Aamano: (who) believed (and it is not aspect and therefore it is not believe)

wa al-ladhiin: and those

haaduu (heh with a fatha, alif, dal with a damma, waw, alif) , wa al-ssaabi'uuna wa al-nasara (notice the poor spelling of the word Nassaaraa as the ulama had to add a shadda, two alifs and one fatha to the defective rasm): the Jews, the Sabeans (who ever they are) and the Christians.

min amn bi Allah: from who believes in Allah

wa al-yauwim al-akhar: and the other day (or yauwim al-qiyama or the last day)

wa 'amila: and made (and no it is not aspect)

salihhan: and did right (notice the 'Irab)

fala: therefore not

khawfan: fear (notice the 'Irab)

'Alayhoom: upon them.

wa lahu: and to them

yahzanoon: become sad.

So your Allah is saying: " Those (who) believed and those (the) Jews, Sabeans, (and) the Christiians (from) who believes in Allah, and the other (last) day, and made (performed) and did right, they should not (have) fear upon them and to them become sad (they should not be sad)." I think you get the idea.

So you tell me where does this verse define the word kafir? Let me help you, it does not.

Now I mentioned that any Qur'anic dispensation in same subject matter in sura 9 (because it is the last revealed sura and it will abrogate earlier dispensations in the same subject matter)

Now your Allah declares his infamous ayat al-sayf or 9:5 where he states that the followers of his cult of Islam must "iqtuloo al-mushrikeen" or kill the idolators (the warm and fuzzy Islam) we are also told by the "ulama that this sordid aya aborgated may be 124 other Qur'anic verses and among them is 5:69!!!.

Now in 9:30 your Allah declares that the Jews and Christians must be mushrikeen (ouch the trinity and the bizarre 'Uzair thing) and therefore he declares in 9:29 that Muslims should fight ahl al-kitab (the Jews and the Christians) and get them to pay the jizya.

So much for your Allah that changes his mind.

So you tell us where does it say in the Qur'an in this aya or any other aya anything about the meaning of the word Kafir? ...

For the readers the word kafir means:

1. Non Muslims (as if anyone cares)

2. Other Muslims under certain conditions.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (40) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Malaysian Govt. PaysPreachers for Marrying Kafirs [18 words]S.C.PandaAug 18, 2006 01:4653311
... Wrong fact! [44 words]fade leyAug 6, 2006 00:4751764
minorities in malaysia [54 words]RAJESH GOGNAJul 1, 2006 06:0748644
Discrimination in Muslim majority country [167 words]GopalJul 1, 2006 01:4648636
Malaysian Government Pays Preachers for Marrying Kafirs [23 words]steven lJun 30, 2006 22:0048624
Kaffirs reference offensive [101 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:5948560
For Abdul Rahman: is the word kaffir offensive? [780 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2006 07:4148560
your interpretation is wrong [61 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 07:3348560
Abdul Rahman: Islam and the turth! And how do you propose that one can cover the truth? [142 words]dhimmi no moreJul 4, 2006 17:3748560
wrong [230 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 6, 2006 05:4748560
For Abd al-Rahman (this is the proper transliteration of your name) [710 words]dhimmi no moreJul 6, 2006 18:4848560
hostile and nasty [638 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:0748560
Dr. Pipes [71 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:1448560
For Abd al-Rahman: Do you really know what are really diacriticla points and not marks as you claim? [216 words]dhimmi no moreJul 14, 2006 21:5548560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and the poor muslim theology [765 words]dhimmi no moreJul 15, 2006 08:0148560
What is a decent translation? [60 words]Kevin MJul 15, 2006 20:5548560
addressed to the arrogant one [286 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 16, 2006 06:2048560
For Kevin: And a good translation of the Qur'an [696 words]dhimmi no moreJul 16, 2006 08:1148560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and who is really a kaffir? [73 words]dhimmi no moreJul 17, 2006 06:4348560
read properly [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 18, 2006 22:1248560
refutation [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 19, 2006 07:3248560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "connotation and denotation" Chutzpah and other sordid matters [1169 words]dhimmi no moreJul 19, 2006 18:5248560
please explain [190 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 20, 2006 05:3248560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and Chutzpah!!! [562 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2006 07:2548560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "covering of sins" and the word kaffir!! [168 words]dhimmi no moreJul 22, 2006 07:1548560
read what I wrote truthfully [182 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 22, 2006 18:2648560
For 'Abd al-Rahman: "covering up the truth?" And Muslim logic!! [594 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2006 18:4648560
For Abd al-Rahman [225 words]MoayiddOct 9, 2007 09:0148560
Our dear Moayidd and gem time [283 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 07:5648560
More gems from our dear Moayidd and big time falsafa [325 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 18:5648560
Slight correction [24 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 20:1348560
Our dear Mo'ayyid and his examination in Syriac and Egyptian and Arabic and Judeo-Arabic [173 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2007 18:3748560
Clarification [168 words]MoayiddSep 7, 2009 00:3648560
Our dear Mo'ayyid and the word Kufr [1071 words]dhimmi no moreSep 12, 2009 08:5148560
Oh I'm waiting for your naswer our dear Mo'ayyid [211 words]dhimmi no moreSep 26, 2009 20:2848560
From Pakistan [26 words]KhanMay 11, 2010 18:2448560
Our dear khan and the Qur'an [88 words]dhimmi no moreMay 12, 2010 19:5248560
Wrong [68 words]KhanMay 13, 2010 20:4948560
sayed in iran [38 words]cyrusJun 30, 2006 10:0548542
Myth of moderate Malaysia [103 words]VijayJun 30, 2006 05:3648512

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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