69 million page views

For Abdul Rahman: is the word kaffir offensive?

Reader comment on item: Muslim-Controlled Governments Subsidize Conversions of Kafirs
in response to reader comment: Kaffirs reference offensive

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 1, 2006 at 07:41

A kaffir is a non-Muslim and this is what the word means, and nothing more and nothing less. As a matter of fact I call myself a proud kaffir and a proud dhimmi no more. But Islam is full of and you must pardon me silly ideas and doctrines that makes it the laughing stock of us infidels including: fatwa, jihad, taqiya, zawaj mut'a etc... and as I say Islam is the worst enemy of Islam and not us the infidels.

Now if the question is: why is the Qur'an, and therefore Muslim discourse, full of polemics including calling non-Muslims kuffar? One must read Wansbrough's book "Sectarian Milieu" (now available again at amazon.com). Wansbrough's thesis is as follows:

1. There is no reason for us to believe the Islamic history as transmitted to us by the Islamic historical tradition and this is based on literary examination of the very early Muslim literary sources.

2. The Arab polity invaded the Middle East in 635 CE. However, Islam as we know just did not exist at that time, and if you can produce to me an _extant_ copy of the Qur'an that can be dated to 632 CE and is an exact replica of the standard 1923-1024 copy of the Egyptian Qur'an, I will believe you, but there is no such copy.

3. Islam is the product of the sectarian debates between major religions in the area of Syria, palestine, Mesopotamia and Iran that has been taking place for a very long time before the Arab invasion took place.

4. For reasons that we still do not understand the invading Arab polity elected the emerging Islam as the religion of such polity. And then and only then the 'ulama had to look back and find a prophet in the same mould as the great prophets of the Jews and Christians and that was Muhammad the same person we hear about in early Syriac sources as the: King of the Arabs or Mlk tayayye.

4. The hadith (Let us not forget that Bukhari who was a non-Arab was the father of the hadith), sira (ibn Ishaq was the grandson of a Christian who was a Syriac speaker, and Ibn Hisham was born and lived all his life in Egypt and most likely his first language was Coptic) , tarikh (Tabari was an Iranian man who most likey never ventured beyond Iran), akhbar , tafseer (the tafseer is the ulitmate test that the 'Ulama who had no clue about Arabia in general or how the qur'an was revealed to Muhammad, and in-order to conver their confusion and discrepancies and ignorance about asbab al-nuzul (reasons for revelations) came up with the tafsser vs. ta'weel concept and for this see Wansbrough). All of this literature is the product of the non-Arab 'Ulama in the 3rd century of Islam and in places very far from Arabia, and Islam as we know it now was born in the 3rd century and was not the product of Arabia. 70% of these 'Ulama were Iranians (see Ali Dashti) which translates as: the contribution of the Arabs to their Muslim civilization was marginal at best. Imagine if the history of the British Empire was written by an Indian who has never been to England and had no access to written records, and in the process the same person wrote the grammar and introduced the vowels of the english language. You would agree with me that we would have had a different history and a different language of England.

5. To add insult to injury the Arabic language of the 3 rd century of Islam is the product of non-Arabs. Case in point: Sibawayhe the father of the Arabic grammar was an Afghani. The inventor of the short vowels of the Arabic language was a Syriac speaker and a Christian (gasp!!!): Hunein ibn Ishaq. And when translating the Greek learning at Dar al-Hikma in Baghdad to Syriac and then to Arabic he had to invent new Arabic words (eg: tuhal, safra, balgham) using Sibawayhe Fi'l. These words would have had no meaning to Muhammad or his generation but you would find them included in Ibn Manzur's Lisan al-Arab. So much for the Arabs and their civilization, and so much for the Arabic language.

So Muslims and Islam are stuck for ever and ever by the fatal flaw in Islam and that is: Islam is the by-product of sectarian debates. So you see abdul Rahman you are the victim of poor theology that is stuck at a point in time and there is no way out.

No I do not find the word kaffir as an insult. It is a badge of honor.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

<< Previous Comment      Next Comment >>

Reader comments (40) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Malaysian Govt. PaysPreachers for Marrying Kafirs [18 words]S.C.PandaAug 18, 2006 01:4653311
... Wrong fact! [44 words]fade leyAug 6, 2006 00:4751764
minorities in malaysia [54 words]RAJESH GOGNAJul 1, 2006 06:0748644
Discrimination in Muslim majority country [167 words]GopalJul 1, 2006 01:4648636
Malaysian Government Pays Preachers for Marrying Kafirs [23 words]steven lJun 30, 2006 22:0048624
Kaffirs reference offensive [101 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:5948560
For Abdul Rahman: is the word kaffir offensive? [780 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2006 07:4148560
your interpretation is wrong [61 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 07:3348560
Abdul Rahman: Islam and the turth! And how do you propose that one can cover the truth? [142 words]dhimmi no moreJul 4, 2006 17:3748560
wrong [230 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 6, 2006 05:4748560
For Abd al-Rahman (this is the proper transliteration of your name) [710 words]dhimmi no moreJul 6, 2006 18:4848560
hostile and nasty [638 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:0748560
Dr. Pipes [71 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:1448560
For Abd al-Rahman: Do you really know what are really diacriticla points and not marks as you claim? [216 words]dhimmi no moreJul 14, 2006 21:5548560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and the poor muslim theology [765 words]dhimmi no moreJul 15, 2006 08:0148560
What is a decent translation? [60 words]Kevin MJul 15, 2006 20:5548560
addressed to the arrogant one [286 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 16, 2006 06:2048560
For Kevin: And a good translation of the Qur'an [696 words]dhimmi no moreJul 16, 2006 08:1148560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and who is really a kaffir? [73 words]dhimmi no moreJul 17, 2006 06:4348560
read properly [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 18, 2006 22:1248560
refutation [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 19, 2006 07:3248560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "connotation and denotation" Chutzpah and other sordid matters [1169 words]dhimmi no moreJul 19, 2006 18:5248560
please explain [190 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 20, 2006 05:3248560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and Chutzpah!!! [562 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2006 07:2548560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "covering of sins" and the word kaffir!! [168 words]dhimmi no moreJul 22, 2006 07:1548560
read what I wrote truthfully [182 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 22, 2006 18:2648560
For 'Abd al-Rahman: "covering up the truth?" And Muslim logic!! [594 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2006 18:4648560
For Abd al-Rahman [225 words]MoayiddOct 9, 2007 09:0148560
Our dear Moayidd and gem time [283 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 07:5648560
More gems from our dear Moayidd and big time falsafa [325 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 18:5648560
Slight correction [24 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 20:1348560
Our dear Mo'ayyid and his examination in Syriac and Egyptian and Arabic and Judeo-Arabic [173 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2007 18:3748560
Clarification [168 words]MoayiddSep 7, 2009 00:3648560
Our dear Mo'ayyid and the word Kufr [1071 words]dhimmi no moreSep 12, 2009 08:5148560
Oh I'm waiting for your naswer our dear Mo'ayyid [211 words]dhimmi no moreSep 26, 2009 20:2848560
From Pakistan [26 words]KhanMay 11, 2010 18:2448560
Our dear khan and the Qur'an [88 words]dhimmi no moreMay 12, 2010 19:5248560
Wrong [68 words]KhanMay 13, 2010 20:4948560
sayed in iran [38 words]cyrusJun 30, 2006 10:0548542
Myth of moderate Malaysia [103 words]VijayJun 30, 2006 05:3648512

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to For Abdul Rahman: is the word kaffir offensive? by dhimmi no more

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)