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JustMe, my replies

Reader comment on item: Something Rotten in Denmark?
in response to reader comment: Abdul Rahman - Christian ? Muslim ? Execution ?

Submitted by Hind Samy (Egypt), Mar 28, 2006 at 18:02

You are quoting Hadith - not all Hadith is correct. Tabari was a historian, not one of the Prohet's followers.

Please keep your quotes on the original source, the KORAN. Hadith are oral sayings and are not all correct. Restrict yourself to the source.

Now let me reply to your quotations of the interpretation of the Koran:

-- Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."

God said this because he didn't want false accusations of women, so he specifed that any accusations on women must have 4 eye witnesses. This protects women from false accusations, so how can it be bad for women? Do you understand? God required any accusations of adultery to include the eye witnessing of FOUR people.

-- Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

Again, the same - FOUR EYE witnesses must swear by God to the women's adultery - how in God's name can this be bad for women I ask you! It's pretty clear that this was for the protection of women,

then you say:

"You can't blame these verses on man perverting a beautiful Islamic principle. It is directly from your scriptures. It is the reason these women are suffering under oppression."

Do the Muslim women on this board sound oppressed or unhappy to you? We all have computers, access to the internet - we are able to speak to you all freely, we obviously have good educations - we can speak your language and other languages - does this sound like oppressed women to you?

The rest of your quotes are not from the scripture - they're Hadith and like I said not all of them are accepted as being correct, so I won't comment on them.

You say:

"Off the top of my head you were called stupid, not even half a man, they were allowed to beat you and put you in a room until you starve to death, I think you're referred to domestic animals-- oh, what the heck, I'll repost them."

Nowhere in the Koran are women called stupid. As for half a man - you are misunderstanding it, the reason this was said is as follows:

"The woman's testimony. is equal only to half of the man's testimony: This is a gross mis-representation. The woman testimony is equal to the man's testimony except in one case only, the financial transactions. This is according to 2:282;

[ 2:282] O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. ........ Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so. ......

Financial transactions are the ONLY situations where two women may substitute for one man as witness. This is to guard against the real possibility that one witness may marry the other witness, and thus cause her to be biased. It is a recognized fact that women are more emotionally vulnerable than men. If the woman as a witness was worth half that of a man, the verse would have stated so clearly. But obviously that is not the case. Women's testimony in all other matters are equal to that of a man or even supersedes his testimony as in the case of a wife testifying against her accusation of adultery, 24:6-10. See also, 65:2, 5:106 and 4:6 "

As for your comments that it is ok for a man to ebat his wife in Islam:

"[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

At first glance this verse may appear as if promoting physical abuse of women. But when reading 4:34 carefully one realizes that it actually prohibits abuse and beating of women by using the best psychological approach.

The advise to first talk and then avoid sexual contact, provides the necessary time and space for both parties to cool off, reason, examine the problem and reach a favorable agreement for both of them.

Abuse of a wife will not happen if the man learns to follow the clear commandments of God in this verse and in the order decreed. Abuse will only happen when a man does not follow these commandments, and thus fails to cool off and reason with himself or with his wife.

Sura 4, where we read 4:34, entitled "The Women," is one of the longest chapters in the Quran. It deals with many of the rights and responsibilities of women, rights that were first available to western women only a few decades ago, and some that still aren't. The theme of this Sura is to defend women's rights, and countering injustice and oppression of women. Thus, any interpretation of verses in Sura 4 must be in favor of the women, not the other way around. "

And:

"The nature and essence of a healthy relationship between a husband and wife is beautifully expressed in the following verse from the Quran:

[ 30:21] Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think.

[3:195 ]"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

"In conclusion; A BELIEVING wife and a BELIEVING husband will NEVER get to the point where beating of the wife enters the picture. A BELIEVING couple will consult one another and agree on the best way to solve their differences as verse 4:34 and the whole scripture recommends."
...
I hope now you are not as misinformed as before.

Peace to you.
Submitting....

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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