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Reader comment on item: Christianity Dying in Its Birthplace

Submitted by Aidan Maconachy (Canada), Nov 27, 2005 at 07:04

The recent riots in France prompted me to re-visit this thread that has touched the idea of a "clash of civilizations".

There have been quite a few voices that have been suggesting these riots were Islamist in inspiration, and some have spoken of "holy war" coming to the streets of Europe.

I think we have to be very cautious with such judgements. This conflict can't be reduced to a simple "us versus them" paradigm, reason being that we have moved light years beyond that reality. There are many Muslim citizens in our Western societies who are in every respect "integrated". Many of these people are in business and in the professions ... they are members of our armed forces. In Canada we have a sikh community that is an integral part of our society, a number of them key players in the business community and officers in the RCMP.

I am proud to be a member of a society that is struggling to include peoples of all ethnicities and faiths within a social/political framework that is inclusive.

I agree that in Europe there are radicalized and unassimilated populations of immigrants that are posing an enormous challenge. However it is a mistake to identify these Muslim immigrant peoples with radical Islam of the bin Laden variety and to concoct wild theories that their aim is to create European caliphates etc. This is hysterical and unhinged thinking.

There are some hard core Islamist elements in these Muslim communities that are definitely engaged in this type of jihadist activity, as we have seen with the Madrid and London bombings.

However, a closer and dispassionate analysis of these atrocities makes it clear that the Muslim communities at large were in no way guilty by association. Interviews with English Muslims in the communities in which the young bombers lived, makes it clear that most of those citizens were frankly appalled and ashamed that this action could have been spawned in their midst.

I do agree though that there is a tolerance for Wahhabi teachings in some European mosques, and a culture that tends to cultivate violent ambitions. This is true. However the solution, is not to further marginalize and stigmatize these communities so that they are driven toward violence as a solution. The way forward is to work with the majority of moderate people in these communities and seek to find a way to lessen tensions.

Recently Salman Rushdie called for reform within western Islam, and I completely agree. Muslims living in the West must find a way to reconcile their faith with the democratic societies in which they live. We have a courageous young woman here in Canada named Irshad Manji who has also called for extensive Islamic reform in her writings, and has of course been pilloried by hard line Muslims for speaking out.

This is a work in progress, and those who advocate exclusion and condemnation in response to the problems posed by our immigrant communites, are basically trying to create the conditions for civil strife of the most ugly kind. None of us need this.
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Title Commenter Date Thread
Prophetic Implications Being Fulfilled in Modern Day Assaults on Practicing Christianity [171 words]M ToveyMay 5, 2022 13:35280666
1Islam, as practiced, is a draconian force and should not be tolerated [209 words]PrashantMay 5, 2022 10:22280656
The Other Approach to Christianity's Destiny - When the Truth to Its Purpose is Revealed [94 words]M ToveyMay 5, 2022 17:13280656
1anti-christ [130 words]Phyllis PooleOct 23, 2009 08:57163486
It Is A Shame Nobody Reacts... [431 words]Cpt MacJul 4, 2007 03:03102876
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Islam [447 words]Cpt MacNov 5, 2009 13:41102876
Ghosts of Christmas future ? [142 words]Phil GreendJul 3, 2007 10:17102559
good [31 words]mayApr 29, 2007 13:3191048
TRUE PRACTICAL FACE OF ISLAM [1035 words]A.SHARMADec 3, 2005 07:3529344
to A. Sharma [354 words]tariqJan 9, 2006 14:4029344
Look in the mirror [207 words]AmirMay 24, 2006 17:4229344
Mr sharma. [188 words]Ahmed ShahjahanSep 17, 2006 15:3429344
Ahmed Shahjahan [22 words]ASSep 26, 2006 06:0229344
Sharma [83 words]FAIZANMay 3, 2007 14:5729344
na [101 words]wajiha batool ahmedFeb 16, 2008 09:1529344
"Never mind their religion" [236 words]kafurFeb 27, 2008 11:0529344
To the entire world [85 words]Yax MokwaJul 23, 2008 06:0129344
Tariq of Pakistan [21 words]rishiFeb 7, 2009 15:0929344
don't think so. [123 words]wajiha batool ahmedFeb 9, 2009 16:1029344
Recent Conflicts [505 words]Aidan MaconachyNov 27, 2005 07:0428882
Time to open your eyes. [193 words]Gary MJan 18, 2008 19:1728882
christians read your bible [198 words]dpvNov 14, 2005 09:5228358
To dpv [37 words]LisaNov 17, 2005 22:4128358
1Even Jesus Used Just Anger To Clean Out The Temple [115 words]AnneMApr 25, 2006 19:4128358
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Ridiculous stretch [39 words]MatthewAug 13, 2012 14:1328358
No We Cannot Get Along [358 words]Cpt MacNov 12, 2005 17:2328287
As I stated before "No We Cannot Just Get Along" [1619 words]Cpt MacJul 20, 2006 10:4328287
Stirring and Truth Filled Words From Cpt. Mac [28 words]CherylJul 3, 2007 15:1628287
to cpt mac [14 words]kafuFeb 27, 2008 11:4428287
India- Dalit Christians dont have same basic human rights as Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist Dalits? [43 words]John JethmalOct 2, 2005 16:3826540
Response to John [67 words]DvoraOct 6, 2005 22:1826540
A psychological problem... [178 words]Mohammed Saleem AkhtarOct 2, 2005 00:4826521
Final Post [156 words]Shazia KhanumSep 28, 2005 12:4126418
Quran, Response to Shazia [197 words]Abdullah A.Sep 28, 2005 08:4326403
Quran, response to Shazia [46 words]N.KhanSep 28, 2005 18:3026403
to Abdullah A [275 words]tariqJan 12, 2006 15:4226403
to Abdullah A [133 words]tariqJan 12, 2006 16:4226403
Trying to improve moderate muslim's image, Response to Shazia [228 words]John B.Sep 27, 2005 17:4926382
Response to John B. [181 words]Shazia KhanumSep 28, 2005 10:0126382
Islam, Religion of peace, response to Shazia [135 words]AhmedSep 27, 2005 15:5326381
Going against quran and sunna , Response to Shazia [166 words]N. KhanSep 27, 2005 17:0426381
Response to N.Khan [109 words]Shazia KhanumSep 28, 2005 10:0626381
Terrorism and islam, response to Shazia [286 words]Ayesha AhmedSep 28, 2005 19:1726381
reply to ahmed [226 words]tariqJan 28, 2006 11:5026381
Response to N. Khan's comment:Going against quran and sunna , Response to Shazia [345 words]tariqJan 29, 2006 11:0826381
Are the names you quoted practicing muslims? [275 words]w. anwarFeb 23, 2007 17:1726381
Rape, response to Shazia [137 words]A.B.Sep 27, 2005 16:1226379
Another Response to A.B. (Rape is a CRIME!!!) [116 words]Shazia KhanumSep 28, 2005 09:1126379
Sharia requires four male witnesses to prove a rape [96 words]NaziaSep 28, 2005 18:2126379
Dear A.B. u r mistaken [109 words]tariqJan 12, 2006 16:5626379
misquoting from the Quran [217 words]w.anwarFeb 23, 2007 17:4526379
rapists celebrate islam as perfect way of life [65 words]amitNov 23, 2009 11:3526379
Witness [42 words]Indian citizenDec 29, 2009 01:1226379
Moderate/good muslims are an indirect help to radical islam [394 words]MamdouhSep 27, 2005 12:3426358
Back where we started - words of peace married with acts of war [1576 words]Reuben HorneSep 27, 2005 04:3626340
Re: Back where we started - words of peace married with acts of war [666 words]Shazia KhanumSep 28, 2005 08:3126340
no democracy? [37 words]mustafaSep 26, 2005 13:4426324
Isn't there anything concrete we can do? [167 words]Clare ParkerSep 25, 2005 11:1026285
We all believe to the same god. [324 words]SULTANSep 24, 2005 19:5926265
We don't believe in the same God? [93 words]JROct 23, 2009 00:1526265
1Death of Christianity in the land of its birth [207 words]Kenneth T. TellisSep 24, 2005 19:3726262
Re: Dispensing with Semantics [1269 words]Reuben HorneSep 24, 2005 10:5826251
Response to Reuben Horne [603 words]Shazia KhanumSep 24, 2005 19:4026251
one less dhimmi [223 words]SullySep 22, 2005 20:3826188
to Sully, September 22, 2005 at 20:38 [185 words]RajendranSep 23, 2005 12:1926188
Response to Sully [217 words]Shazia KhanumSep 23, 2005 12:2326188
Sufi Islam is not real islam, Response to Shazia [803 words]NazirSep 21, 2005 13:5226131
Response to Nasir Khan [309 words]Shazia KhanumSep 21, 2005 14:1326131
Nasir Khan [35 words]RickSep 21, 2005 19:1926131
Just empty words Shazia [264 words]WalterSep 21, 2005 21:3926131
Sufi islam preaches peace but it is not islam, Response to Shazia [90 words]Nasir KhanSep 21, 2005 22:1226131
Rape, Response to Shazia [184 words]A.B.Sep 21, 2005 23:5726131
Response to A.B. [117 words]Shazia KhanumSep 22, 2005 08:2226131
Question for Shazia [140 words]WalterSep 22, 2005 14:4226131
Ms. Shazia Khanum [50 words]Faqi HussainSep 22, 2005 15:0026131
Response to Shazia and A.B. on the topics of Context and Rape [852 words]Reuben HorneSep 22, 2005 18:4226131
Response to Reuben Horne [384 words]Shazia KhanumSep 23, 2005 08:5026131
Response to Faqi Hussain [250 words]Shazia KhanumSep 23, 2005 09:0026131
Response to Walter [535 words]Shazia KhanumSep 23, 2005 09:3826131
reply to Walter [99 words]yuval Brandstetter MDSep 23, 2005 10:1026131
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Response to Shazia Kahnum [372 words]Faqi HussainSep 24, 2005 10:1626131
Another Response to Faqi Hussain [319 words]Shazia KhanumSep 24, 2005 20:0726131
Response to Dvora [156 words]Shazia KhanumSep 24, 2005 20:2026131
please re-think your comments [131 words]MurtazaJun 26, 2006 04:2226131
Sufism and 'Spirtual Islam' - the 'Islam of Gods Peace'!! Not Man's Warlike peace!! [185 words]Uncle VanyaMar 23, 2007 12:4626131
Ridiculous. [71 words]Amy SylvesterApr 30, 2008 00:2726131
mohammed is the real islam [232 words]hanuApr 11, 2009 08:4626131
Dr. Pipes article re Christianity Dying in its Birth[place [131 words]Bob SmithSep 20, 2005 18:0426086
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What if they were Jews [176 words]yuval Brandstetter MDSep 19, 2005 18:0226036
In response to yuval Brandstetter [125 words]Pusyamitra SungaJun 1, 2006 22:4526036
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Two sides of coin [210 words]RickSep 18, 2005 21:0026007
Reply to Rick [709 words]Amitabh tripathiSep 20, 2005 04:2126007
Reply to Amitabh Tripathi [636 words]RickSep 21, 2005 05:1126007
reply to Rick [306 words]Amitabh tripathiSep 21, 2005 15:0526007
Reply to Amitabh Tripathi [74 words]RickSep 22, 2005 14:1126007
Reply to Rick [131 words]Amitabh tripathiSep 22, 2005 23:5326007
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Final reply to Tripathi [211 words]RickSep 23, 2005 15:1026007
Reply to Faqui Hussain [90 words]Amitabh tripathiSep 24, 2005 00:5226007
Reply to Mr. Tripathi [368 words]Faqi HussainSep 24, 2005 18:5226007
Final reply to Rick and Hussain [167 words]Amitabh tripathiSep 25, 2005 02:1526007
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To Rick: The Gentile War Against Hindus [34 words]Georges FernandezNov 30, 2005 13:5026007
on Christianity in India [680 words]to RickSep 26, 2006 03:4826007
to Faqi Hussain [228 words]ASSep 26, 2006 06:2226007
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Winston Churchill Comments reprinted by American Congress for Truth [240 words]John Randall PeacherSep 17, 2005 14:0525982
Response to John Randall Peacher [73 words]Chris BellSep 24, 2005 03:1825982
Old News, yet relevant. [77 words]Peter J. HerzSep 17, 2005 13:2625981
God [78 words]RafikSep 17, 2005 10:4725977
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Moderate Islam is more deadly ( Dr. Habira) [216 words]Abdullah A.Sep 16, 2005 14:2125903
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Final Response to Nazir on Sira (Biography of Muhammad) [821 words]Shazia KhanumSep 16, 2005 20:5725900
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Response to Nazir [1246 words]Shazia KhanumSep 20, 2005 17:4625900
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Ms. Khanum [305 words]DaisySep 21, 2005 00:3325900
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Response [188 words]RepomanFeb 8, 2011 03:2925900
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Is Sufism enough? [389 words]AVSep 16, 2005 02:0025887
SPREADING FREE CHOICE [105 words]JOHNSep 15, 2005 21:1025879
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True Islam [212 words]Adam KatoAug 10, 2007 12:2925877
Palestinian Christians [258 words]YovenSep 15, 2005 10:5325865
please help the PAKISTANI CHRISTIANS!!!!!! [306 words]A . yousafSep 26, 2005 14:1425865
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The Religion of Peace Strikes Again [202 words]Arlinda DeAngelisSep 15, 2005 08:1325861
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Evangelistic Christians [58 words]William RomineSep 14, 2005 22:2625848
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Baphomet [378 words]KierkegaardSep 14, 2005 19:1825839
The Symbolism of Baphomet, Goats, and Snakes [617 words]Miguel LahunkenOct 21, 2017 08:3725839
Christianity Dying in Its Birthplace [7 words]RoySep 14, 2005 19:1125838
Is it ever easy? [43 words]NaomiSep 14, 2005 18:5825837
Maybe the answer [54 words]Howard E. CookSep 14, 2005 12:5225826
A Civilization Under Siege [604 words]Aidan MaconachySep 14, 2005 12:1125824
Living under Moslems [331 words]RajendrenSep 14, 2005 11:3825823
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Attacks on Christians & Jews while the Western leaders sleep [157 words]Rena CohenSep 14, 2005 11:3325822
death of Christianity [116 words]bob fSep 14, 2005 10:2825820
The death of Christianity [124 words]Van BrockJun 25, 2007 05:5125820
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True Nature of Islam [344 words]Shazia KhanSep 14, 2005 07:5925810
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Another Thought for Shazia [212 words]Aidan MaconachySep 15, 2005 13:4325810
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Questions for Shazia Khan Regarding Islam's War Against Women [192 words]Arlinda DeAngelisSep 15, 2005 20:2325810
Shazia, Actions Are Stronger Than Words [248 words]WalterSep 15, 2005 21:1525810
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Comments on some of the responses (final) [1964 words]Shazia KhanumSep 16, 2005 08:3625810
True nature of islam, Response to Shazia [449 words]Nasir KhanSep 16, 2005 13:3925810
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Islamic takeover of UK media ? [95 words]Avi GrantSep 14, 2005 03:4025803
Jews and Christians in Israel [383 words]AVSep 14, 2005 02:1525801
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Palestinian Authority can never be responsible for Christian Holy Places [86 words]David GoshenSep 14, 2005 00:4625797
Pogroms against Arab Christians [133 words]Elaine NugentSep 14, 2005 00:0725796
Whatever happen to the Christians, America is mute. [144 words]F. ShawkiSep 13, 2005 23:5425795
Ambitious and arrogant [122 words]David W. LincolnSep 13, 2005 23:3325794
wandering argument [375 words]David FrankfurterSep 13, 2005 22:1725791
Christians supporting holy land christians [48 words]C. CurranSep 13, 2005 21:0925789
Wahhabi Islam's Intolerance of Judaism and Christianity [118 words]David GilchristSep 13, 2005 20:3625787
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Should the word, fight, in the Quran be interpreted as fighting against non-muslims? [148 words]ZUMAApr 20, 2012 23:2425786
Muslim terrorists have misled people to fight. [94 words]ZUMAApr 29, 2012 21:1925786
Quran never teaches muslims to be bad to create havoc, violence, and all kind of mishaviour in the society [258 words]zumaApr 30, 2012 20:3525786
Confused Christian Churches [438 words]DvoraSep 13, 2005 18:5825781
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A peek at the future?? [92 words]Darwin BarrettSep 13, 2005 18:0325778
The effects of bias and neglect [66 words]David W. LincolnSep 13, 2005 17:4225775
Acrimony against USA [93 words]Joseph WechslerSep 13, 2005 17:4025774
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The nature of Islam [51 words]Robert WillisSep 13, 2005 15:4925768
A Preview of Coming World Events [861 words]Yehoshua ZellerSep 13, 2005 15:2525767
The Forgotten Christians [98 words]Mark GarretsonSep 13, 2005 15:2325766
Note the lack of logic or introspection. [297 words]Ben ShniperSep 13, 2005 14:4425765
All that is necessary... [73 words]BillSep 13, 2005 13:5725764
How can diaspora Christians speak out...... [195 words]SharonSep 13, 2005 11:5125760
Very Scary [109 words]JaneSep 13, 2005 10:3725755
Christian Denominations & Muslim Intolerance [66 words]LanceSep 13, 2005 10:3725754
Christianity Dying in its Birthplace [41 words]Mickey ObermanSep 13, 2005 09:4725752
The measure of Islamic reform [128 words]NickSep 13, 2005 09:3625750
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Christianity Dying in Its Birthplace [22 words]PhillipSep 13, 2005 09:1925749
Attacks against Christians in its Birthplace [172 words]ANTOINESep 13, 2005 09:1425748
1Ethnic cleansing is part of Islam [355 words]Amitabh tripathiSep 13, 2005 09:0525747
Amitabh Tripathi's Comments [195 words]JaladhiSep 14, 2005 09:5925747
EHTNIC CLEANSING IS PART OF A FANATICS FAITH IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT RELIGION HE FOLLOWS [281 words]w.anwarFeb 23, 2007 18:0825747
How Christian churches react to the decimation of the Christian community [29 words]Larry ShapiroSep 13, 2005 08:5025746
A Different Title [31 words]nathan potaznikSep 13, 2005 08:3425745
Thank you for bringing this to peoples' attention [74 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Mike RSep 13, 2005 08:3425744
Ah, our lovely MSM [195 words]TTSep 13, 2005 08:2025742
dhimmitude [110 words]MontySep 13, 2005 07:3725741

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