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Re: A balanced policy - Reply to everyone

Reader comment on item: Europe under Siege

Submitted by Reuben Horne (Australia), Oct 19, 2005 at 01:23

Dr Pipes,
There is a great convergence of opinion on the matter of immigration in the general population that has leant towards the negative in the past few years especially in Australia. An anomalous result of this is that the anti-immigration parties in Australia have members who are of the same ethnic extraction as the people they are trying to stop coming into the country. There is a keen appreciation that recent influxes will culturally transform the nation and may well erode their living standards.

In Australia it's less of a problem than it is in Europe. The influx of Islamic immigration and the disgustingly contrarian nature of their politics has for me broken down much of the reticence I had to see virtue in cultures (apart from the Muslims). For example the Indians experiencing much turmoil in their own country over the in-migration that resulted from the forced exodus from Cashmere in many respects have a deeper appreciation of the Anglo political institutions and rule of law than the Anglo-Celts in my country who take it all for granted. I have had lecturers in Law School of Indian extraction who are amongst the finest constitutional lawyers of their generation and whose full time job it is to remarket the virtue of Democratic traditions and the rule of law to a tired and cynical western audiences (whose ancestors invented these ideas in the first place). And perhaps this again is the problem - westerners can hardly complain about people who do not share their values transforming their countries if they are not prepared to market their values to these people.

There are ideological barriers to westerners being able to fly their own flags and propogate their own values. The Iraqi invasion for example conducted in a most culturally sensative manner may well wind up establishing another Iran. America acts as though democratic values and potential exist already within the country and consequentially only do half a job. Democracy is a very good product but legions of whining academics and half-wit pundit left wing students prevent us from marketing it effectively. As a person of part Asian descent I am sometimes, though not often, accorded a degree of immunity from this overarching political correctness.

The issues I contend such as the modern shape of multiculturalism however are always placed upon the "yes its a very complicated issue" pile. My views being somehow reasonable but too complicated for the average bovine twit who wades into these matters wearing the rosy colours glasses of left wing ideology - and always retreats to said ideology. It wouldn't be so bad if only these fools didn't have so much say and influence over present govenrment authority. It draws to mind a literary reference taken from of all places a computer game: "I speak with a passion that goes unheard."

Perhaps the problem then is just organisation. So many folks from so many different extractions meet for example here to share broadly similar views and communicate them intelligently and yet few of us band together to lobby as fervently as the idiots that dominate public policy in our nations. Saul Alinksy a mercenary left wing sociologist who would work for just about anyone extolled the virtues of organisation ahead of the moral content or tone of ones message. He helped depose CEOs by using gossip to drive them to stress related illness for example.

The banality of the Islamic message and its demonstrable untruths matched evenly by the similar deficiencies in the left wing message are irrelevant next to the fervor with which they market their ideas. Despite being minorities they dominate debate and we are forced to respond on their terms - no discussion will be aired except ones that proceed on the basis of Islam being essentially the same as Christianity or Judaism in its ethical substratum. As I have said often though I have yet to see Jesus or Moses rape someone in a passage of the Bible or Torah in the same manner which conquest hungry Mohammed did in the Koran to the wife of the leader of a rival tribe of Jews. The same cultural equivalence is given to people from societies that have essentially failed - the underlying proposition that the refugees are somehow appreciably different from the ones whom have organically produced political regimes that are demonstrably evil is logically untenable - but makes us feel warm and fuzzy - so often enough even the more sensible subscribe to it. In Australia for example the Islamic Lebanese (who in their Iranian sponsored vivisection of their country of origin created the problem from which they were fleeing) have become an objectionable fixture in Sydney - organised crime, welfare fraud, tax evasion, gang rape and terrorism (our first bomb making factory ever). Policing these people is almost an industry in itself.

Immigration then is something like a dating service only compatible persons need apply. Sometimes the migrants are far better and less jaded when it comes to the values of western society than the westerners themselves. And I hold myself out as an example of this phenomenon - a 7th generation Australian half asian ultra nationalist. With a little tweaking our immigration policies might actually serve to strengthen rather than to weaken us. But with the policy effectively in the hands of the left expect our societies to gradually spiral downhill. Like education and other areas it must be recaptured by the sane and the sensible. I'm pleased to see the first positive pursuit of an immigration policy that might actually be in Australia's interests thanks to a conservative government no less - we are bringing in 30,000 skilled migrants from places other than the Middle East and surrounds. We also always have non Islamic Asia to draw migrants from (our primary and principle source thus far) and as objectionable as Pauline Hanson found them - many nonetheless assimilate over time and they certainly don't conspire to (or fund those who conspire to) blow us up.

Nonetheless my sympathies go out Europe and I dread its impending Balkanisation. Just make sure that if things really go to hell it's the policymakers and ideologues that let things deteriorate who are up against the wall before any measures are taken against the poor fools fleeing strife torn nations who simply are trying to survive.

Reuben Horne.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (117) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Thats just a blind girl [129 words]KertMar 22, 2010 01:32170493
4Allow immigration of non muslims and ex-muslims only [201 words]NazirDec 13, 2005 18:0929905
Muslim Immigration [39 words]giavourMay 30, 2006 17:5729905
you know nothing about Islam [13 words]MoussaNov 16, 2012 15:2729905
8 December - Immigration in the west in terms of capitalism - more general remarks [577 words]AndyDec 8, 2005 07:3229639
Defending Western Culture in the WEST !! [459 words]Lou from Queens,NYC,USANov 7, 2005 15:5227900
A small fact for Lou from Queens - the oldest democracy [50 words]AndyDec 8, 2005 10:2527900
Europe under seige [173 words]faqi HussainNov 7, 2005 10:5827884
To Faqi Hussain [45 words]LisaNov 7, 2005 22:1527884
Response to Lisa [272 words]faqi HussainNov 8, 2005 00:3927884
to faqi hussain [11 words]edDec 7, 2005 00:3927884
To Lisa , Ed and Faqi Husain, I am also an ex-muslim [237 words]NazDec 12, 2005 19:5227884
To Ed [27 words]LisaDec 14, 2005 15:4127884
reply to lisa [48 words]edDec 15, 2005 20:0627884
Ed, What history he should read? [3 words]LisaDec 16, 2005 14:4327884
To Ed [46 words]giavourMay 30, 2006 17:5327884
Why these people don't stay at home? [41 words]Angry womanNov 5, 2005 09:3627819
look at what their hands are doing [61 words]Xavier Romero-FriasOct 30, 2005 05:4827508
Peaceful Muslims forced to murder [161 words]Walter ManchurOct 29, 2005 18:4427493
a little bit of reality [302 words]h.targanSep 23, 2006 18:0527493
Europe under Siege art.No.3043 [92 words]S.C.PandaOct 27, 2005 05:4727407
Questions to Sultan [270 words]AmarOct 26, 2005 22:1427396
reply to Amar [500 words]SULTANOct 27, 2005 17:0727396
More questions to Sultan [152 words]AmarOct 27, 2005 23:4527396
Now you answer me please. [407 words]SULTANOct 28, 2005 12:1527396
Answers to Sultan [282 words]AmarOct 28, 2005 15:0227396
my final words to Amar [296 words]SULTANOct 29, 2005 16:3727396
An Answer to Sultan [767 words]Arlinda DeAngelisOct 29, 2005 17:0627396
Sultan, you decided that this is your final reply [399 words]AmarOct 29, 2005 19:1627396
Reply to Amar and Sultan [170 words]Atim BasseyNov 1, 2005 09:1827396
Validity of Quran (Sultan) [165 words]LazysusanNov 6, 2005 19:1727396
wrong [160 words]nathan barolliJan 9, 2008 05:0427396
Abdullah Azzam literature [70 words]No DhimmiOct 24, 2005 23:3327275
Good fences make good neighbours [439 words]DonOct 24, 2005 12:4227258
Reply to Don [99 words]Hari IyerOct 25, 2005 00:4727258
I Have Another Dime... [75 words]orange yonasonOct 24, 2005 12:3827257
the die is cast... [157 words]donvanOct 24, 2005 12:3027256
Thank You [175 words]FiftiesJan 22, 2006 15:2927256
Europe under Siege [132 words]Thomas Earl CannadyOct 23, 2005 22:4527238
Retrograde Siege [55 words]Susan WalkerOct 23, 2005 21:1927236
Comments on Susan Walker's post [273 words]DonOct 25, 2005 06:2127236
'Tis Intolerance Not To Tolerate Islam's Intolerance! ...So They Say. [249 words]orange yonasonOct 23, 2005 17:3227232
We are led by cowards and liars! [73 words]Andy MartinFeb 17, 2007 09:0927232
my answer to all of you. [682 words]SULTANOct 23, 2005 15:4527231
Reply to SULTAN [219 words]John GiannascaOct 23, 2005 23:3227231
Sultan, again. [245 words]DaisyOct 24, 2005 10:4227231
Sultan, Me thinks thou protesteth too much [396 words]WalterOct 24, 2005 16:3927231
To Daisy [669 words]SULTANOct 25, 2005 13:5627231
Sultan, Can you please clarify this for me [130 words]AmarOct 25, 2005 22:3827231
Head cover in islam [348 words]SULTANOct 26, 2005 16:1527231
Reply to Sultan [713 words]DaisyOct 26, 2005 23:5727231
Minister draws line at veil. [115 words]SophieOct 27, 2005 04:3527231
1Turkey: The AKP Government. [335 words]SophieOct 31, 2005 19:3127231
Sharon's example [84 words]yuval Brandstetter MDOct 22, 2005 17:5927214
Sharon's Example [70 words]giavourMay 30, 2006 18:1427214
Plight of christianity in christian countries. [166 words]joe jegdishOct 22, 2005 13:5827210
Addendum to Joe Jegdish [345 words]Reuben HorneOct 22, 2005 19:2527210
Reply to Joe Jegdish, the way of islamization of the world. [430 words]OlieOct 23, 2005 09:3327210
muslims are a threat to peace lovers [152 words]MANUOct 7, 2007 07:3027210
1forced immigration [225 words]Elpi NipniOct 22, 2005 10:5627205
Some Not-So PC Information Confirming Our Concerns [106 words]orange yonasonOct 21, 2005 17:3727191
The meek shall inherit the earth [135 words]KAYOct 21, 2005 12:1027181
Illiegal migration into the EU from Africa and the Middle East [254 words]AndyOct 21, 2005 10:1327177
Gentani [12 words]HyeApr 4, 2006 05:0627174
Turkey [122 words]MaryOct 20, 2005 08:2127145
Armenians,Turks,and so called genocide: response to Mary [350 words]SULTANOct 21, 2005 00:0727145
Re: Reply to Sultan [639 words]Reuben HroneOct 22, 2005 04:5327145
To Sultan the moderate muslim [405 words]AllonahhobOct 22, 2005 15:2327145
The sultan's barbarian vision of dhimmi Greeks and Armenians [101 words]ItalianFeb 1, 2006 15:1727145
Immigration [380 words]MaryOct 20, 2005 07:5227144
losers? [361 words]Donald OOct 19, 2005 22:3727130
European Demographic bomb [32 words]Yaakov WatkinsOct 19, 2005 22:3427129
countries change, get used to it [92 words]MitchMay 1, 2008 22:2427129
south african fallacy [265 words]garyOct 19, 2005 21:2627127
The solution is known [77 words]Neila Charchour HachichaOct 19, 2005 21:1927126
US is lucky in its neighbors but still needs border control [150 words]SullyOct 19, 2005 19:1427121
Vienna to bring Islam and the west together. [11 words]SophieOct 19, 2005 15:0327112
Euro-Arab Dialogue [398 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Peter G. JonesOct 19, 2005 14:0427110
Mere escapism from poverty [86 words]Jan VinkOct 19, 2005 06:2227097
Re: A balanced policy - Reply to everyone [1060 words]Reuben HorneOct 19, 2005 01:2327085
a general post including responses to mr mordant and sultan [691 words]garyOct 18, 2005 23:3427082
Comment on Gary's post [163 words]A. AhmedOct 19, 2005 16:4927082
Thanks A.Ahmed [70 words]No DhimmiOct 22, 2005 20:5927082
Illegals [142 words]Arlinda DeAngelisOct 18, 2005 21:5927079
Islamization of Europe [370 words]Carl PearlstonOct 18, 2005 19:0527075
weakness of democracy [261 words]TAPOct 18, 2005 18:1927073
Universal IDs [50 words]Victor PurintonOct 18, 2005 18:1927072
Driven to Nationalism [214 words]AndrewOct 18, 2005 18:1727071
Illegal immigration [307 words]DvoraOct 18, 2005 17:2927069
Capitalism is the Solution to this Human Disaster [242 words]Paul SaundersOct 18, 2005 17:1927068
These walls must not tumble down [121 words]VictorOct 18, 2005 16:5427067
SIEGE [81 words]Donald W. BalesOct 18, 2005 16:3627066
Re Europe: Promise Land for Africans [90 words]Cynthia GrenierOct 18, 2005 16:3027065
Use the Carrot & Stick to limit immigration from Africa [117 words]Germain, Ottawa CanadaOct 19, 2005 13:2327065
The Last Frontier of the Last Days [524 words]Yehoshua ZellerOct 18, 2005 16:2427063
What we can do [117 words]MagdaleneOct 18, 2005 16:1127061
Reply to Magdalene [138 words]PatOct 19, 2005 09:1927061
Magdalene's Solution Will Not Work [226 words]WalterOct 19, 2005 17:1027061
Disagree with Magdalene and in accord with Walter [203 words]RachelleOct 20, 2005 10:0527061
The wrath of Marx, Engels, Lenin et al. [91 words]David W. LincolnOct 18, 2005 16:0327060
1Immigrant problems [231 words]OlieOct 18, 2005 15:3127056
europe immigrant problems [7 words]farise mcintoshMar 10, 2006 00:0027056
Immigrants ruin their home countries & then flee to Europe [27 words]Gamaliel IsaacOct 18, 2005 15:2027055
1Turkish mafia [533 words]SULTANOct 18, 2005 15:0827054
Turkish backing for honour crimes. [30 words]SophieOct 19, 2005 15:1827054
Sultan & Comment [176 words]DaisyOct 20, 2005 10:2727054
response to sophie [123 words]SULTANOct 20, 2005 11:1327054
Response to SULTAN [471 words]SophieOct 22, 2005 01:1927054
To Sultan: Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk [326 words]SophieOct 23, 2005 08:0227054
turkish mafia [79 words]atillaOct 21, 2006 07:2527054
Mistake ! ! ! [30 words]MehmetNov 13, 2008 20:1227054
1turkish mafia [39 words]turkApr 7, 2009 13:4527054
Immigration to Europe and Turkey [78 words]Ian MordantOct 18, 2005 14:5927053
Europe's illegal immigration [112 words]Ian MordantOct 18, 2005 14:5327051
Time will tell [294 words]Kenneth S. BesigOct 18, 2005 14:4927050
Europe under Siege [15 words]PhillipOct 18, 2005 14:0627049
Apartheid Wall [55 words]Roger W. TalbotOct 18, 2005 13:0927046

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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