69 million page views

Tovey: Judaism, Islam and Christianity and Iconoclasm and converting the "heathens" to follow the true God?

Reader comment on item: The Latest on Islamism (and Related Topics)
in response to reader comment: Islamic Influences in Western Culture

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Oct 20, 2020 at 14:31

This post is addressed to those of us that are infidels or kuffar so you have been forewarned.

Islam has been blamed for the Byzantine empire's destructive Εκονομαχια or Εκων κλάω or Iconoclasm of the 8th and 9th century AD. Could it be that the Byzantines and later on the Protestants in Europe were just imitating Islam and the idea of the "no graven image" which is clearly borrowed by Muhammad from Judaism?

It is very surprising that the Qur'an mentions that Sulayman was building temples with Tamathil (statues) and it seems that Allah was OK with it. Also, members of the Umayyads, the earliest dynasty of Islam, lived in lavish "villas" that resembled Roman villas with mosaics and "images and statues" of naked men and women. Things changed in the Abbasid's period when orthodoxy became the norm and it could very well be because of what is called الاسراءليات or the Jewish traditions external to the Tanakh, that were incorporated into the Qur'an (as in the case of Q5:32 which is clearly from the Talmud). It seems that Muslim Rabbis (the Jews that converted to Islam) brought to their new religion the likes of the "no graven image." Muslims were just imitating the now hated الاسراءليات and it certainly helped that the God of Islam had no like for idolatry.

So it seems to me that it was Judaism that was the starting point for the no graven image and not Islam

More? Converting the "heathens" by the invading Spaniards in Mesoamerica and the Christian imitation of the Islamic Ayat al-Sayf or the infamous 9:5 and to paraphrase: "convert to Christianity or you will be killed by the sword because you are a heathen." This must have happened in Spain where Christians under Islam became aware that "holy wars" do work and indeed the invasion of Mesoamerica was a form of Christian Jihad.

But where did this come from? Could it be that the likes of the Jewish revolt of 115-117 AD was just an example of what is really a holy war and the aim was to destroy the "Hellens" or the pagans and get them to follow the true God and it was just another tradition from الاسراءليات and it passed onto Islam by the Muslim Rabbis? So it seems to me that the starting point could well have been Judaism passing on to Islam and then to Christianity?

Nothing is simple in history.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

Reader comments (13) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2Yemeni people should revert to their Jewish roots [129 words]PrashantFeb 12, 2021 02:46263853
2Correction [32 words]PrashantFeb 12, 2021 21:28263853
Islamic Influences in Western Culture [568 words]M ToveyOct 16, 2020 14:52261001
1Tovey: Judaism, Islam and Christianity and Iconoclasm and converting the "heathens" to follow the true God? [407 words]dhimmi no moreOct 20, 2020 14:31261001
Humanity's Propensity for Religious Struggles [614 words]M ToveyOct 20, 2020 17:22261001
1Tovey: He was not a smart or a disciplined theologian! [166 words]dhimmi no moreOct 21, 2020 07:37261001
Altered Religious Themes - True Theology Cannot be Faked [756 words]M ToveyOct 21, 2020 17:08261001
Identity Crisis in Islam [837 words]M ToveyOct 26, 2020 11:58261001
Morphing Middle Eastern Intentions [366 words]M ToveyNov 2, 2020 18:55261001
Other Consequences if America Reverses President Trump UAE Agreement [82 words]M ToveyNov 4, 2020 18:39261001
A Divided America Can No Longer Lead a Lost World - Islam's Last Chance [94 words]M ToveyNov 6, 2020 13:46261001
America No Longer Able to be a Peacemaker [320 words]M ToveyFeb 16, 2021 19:56261001
1Religious Reconstruct or Reconcilation - Abrahamic Accord of Differing Philosophies [130 words]M ToveyMar 6, 2021 18:02261001

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)