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Fact checking DNM (and discovering the Islamic gold mine)

Reader comment on item: Turks in Early Muslim Service
in response to reader comment: The Turks in al-Ahadith

Submitted by Prashant, Feb 23, 2019 at 16:20

Dear Dr Pipes, For all my criticism of Islam, I admire that a lot of Islamic stuff is documented and can be verified. Since they are so stubbornly convinced about their righteousness, Islamic narrators have no qualms about narrating things that are entirely indefensible.

When I read Islamic things, I verify. And to be sure that no one blames me for picking things out of context, I verify things in their full context. The hadith that DNM quoted made no sense to me. I was bewildered why the Prophet of Allah describe people in terms of their facial features and not in terms of 'content of their character' (to steal one of MLK's beautiful phrases). So I set out to fact-check DNM. What I discovered was an Islamic gold mine. No kidding!

It seems when these hadiths were created, Muhammad was in his best of forms. He was on a streak.

I found that DNM was 100% right. He had quoted the hadith verbatim and I found at least one Pakistani source that confirmed the hadith. Whether it makes sense or not, the hadith is quoted by DNM correctly.

I looked at some of the other hadiths prior to these. I am being polite, precise, but intentionally blunt. If you look at the hadiths prior to this. what you will find is given below:

(ref: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/141)

141: (quoted by DNM) describes Turks by their flat noses.

140: Tells people that they will fight with people "whose faces will look like shields coated with leather."

139: Tells "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

138: States that even objects of nature will betray the Jews: 'The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'"'

137: Tells his followers to launch a naval expedition. The prophet, leaving no ambiguity about the purpose of the expedition goes on to clarify: the first army amongst my followers who will invade Caesar's City will be forgiven their sins.

136: This one is hilarious. It tells that you can eat a sheep by cutting form his shoulder and then pray. You do not have to repeat your ablution after eating and before prayers. I dare to think that in the order of importance betraying and killing of Jews and cleanliness before prayers are equivalent things and can be discussed next to each other.

133-135: This one tells that you can wear silk if your body is itching.

I stopped at this because till this point I think I had captured enough context for 141 (DNM's original quotation). I am wondering whether ISIS and affiliates reinvented the wheel about killing non-Muslims on their own or just learned their trade from these hadiths.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (8) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
7The Turks in al-Ahadith [114 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
dhimmi no moreFeb 22, 2019 14:19247897
2The Turks in al-Ahadith al-Sahiha! [82 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 23, 2019 09:19247897
1Fact checking DNM (and discovering the Islamic gold mine) [463 words]PrashantFeb 23, 2019 16:20247897
1Prashant: Never trust English to Arabic translations by Muslims! They are tenditious and full of lies! Here is an example [112 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 26, 2019 07:59247897
Crazy Hadith? The goat that ate the verses wins the prize! [146 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 26, 2019 08:44247897
Typo and it is Arabic to English translations [13 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 27, 2019 06:18247897
6Youtube and another anti-black hadith! [244 words]dhimmi no moreMar 4, 2019 07:23247897
The Mongols were expert archers and related to the Turks [115 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
DaveFeb 21, 2019 18:51247884

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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