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Refreshing Observations

Reader comment on item: Europe's Civilizationist Parties
in response to reader comment: Theory vs the Real World

Submitted by Al Rodbell (United States), Nov 6, 2018 at 20:37

Interesting observations requiring different axes of analysis. "Civilizations" are intertwined with religions, defined as un-examined norms that define and isolate members. Based on this criteria the Ultra-orthodox Jews are closer to the masses of Muslims in fealty and obedience to "God."

http://www.pewforum.org/ provides a cornucopia of research on this.

One who chooses to continue, or join a Muslim sec, is making an adult decision to adhere to defending their God, to the point of condoning killing apostates. In contrast, the vast majority of Jews in the Western world, are secularists, for whom their Jewishness to various degrees are ethnic identities only.

If the "civilization" that you describe is secular, based on accepting the insights that began during the enlightenment, continuing to the replacement of supernatural causation with science based understanding of our world, the expansion of such political parties is to be welcomed.

However, the anti-Muslim stand of the Trump-Republicans happens to be intertwined with the mystical belief of Christianity. We are no longer the country with the motto E Pluribus Unum, but rather "in God we Trust" an assertion that could be sworn to by the most pious of Muslims. When "civilization" parties are extensions or our founder's Deism, or modern secularism, I will certainly applaud their becoming a substantial movement of our era.

In other words, civilizationalism has to have objective criteria to determine whether it is an improvement over nationalism,


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (20) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Europe's Islamization -- any alternative? [162 words]Jeffrey SheffDec 7, 2018 13:48246424
Jeffrey Sheff's legitimate question [786 words]PrashantDec 9, 2018 13:10246424
Nice analysis [127 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
M.L.LipsonNov 10, 2018 15:13245912
2A fourth point wrt [336 words]PrashantNov 14, 2018 00:09245912
Reaction. [79 words]AlbertE.Nov 9, 2018 23:02245891
2Theory vs the Real World [262 words]Sigmund DermanNov 2, 2018 14:04245772
Refreshing Observations [233 words]Al RodbellNov 6, 2018 20:37245772
Nationalist [24 words]Jan BlachaOct 31, 2018 21:46245755
Re: Nationalist [32 words]Globe ThrotterNov 9, 2018 15:02245755
Nationalism [21 words]John BlachaNov 9, 2018 17:04245755
Europa camina hacia la perdiciĆ³n... [75 words]alfonsoOct 31, 2018 15:52245751
1Nationalist, not civilizationist [125 words]G. LobeOct 25, 2018 16:01245698
1Regarding bloodlines [188 words]AnonOct 19, 2018 11:34245578
Hinge of History [181 words]JD WillOct 19, 2018 11:19245576
2What Needs Protecting And Why [237 words]DaveOct 18, 2018 21:10245557
1Patriotic Nationalism vs. the Uncivilized [184 words]RobertOct 19, 2018 00:43245557
1Yes, Nationalism Takes Many Forms [167 words]DaveOct 20, 2018 20:15245557
2Dialectics of Nationalism [275 words]RobertOct 22, 2018 16:16245557
2How Virtue Becomes a Vice [63 words]DaveOct 24, 2018 09:19245557
I guess culturalism has a point... [243 words]Peter HerzNov 3, 2018 23:24245557

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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