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Turkey's geography, history and today's situation

Reader comment on item: NATO's Turkey Challenge

Submitted by Michael S, Apr 19, 2018 at 06:24

Hello, Daniel

You brought up the question of NATO's role in the modern world, and Turkey's connection to it. NATO has been, from its inception, not an alliance AGAINST Communism, as much as it has been an alliance to PROTECT "Western Values". It continues today, in its best moments, in that capacity. As you pointed out, Turkey once shared Western values, and threw in its lot with us to protect them. Now, it no longer shares our values.

Some maps might help the reader to understand what, exactly, IS "The West". First, we have a map of the countries that European citizens can easily travel to:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Visa_requirements_for_the_European_Union_citizens.png/800px-Visa_requirements_for_the_European_Union_citizens.png

Interestingly, the US and Turkey are both only marginally connected to Europe. Looking at this from a US perspective, we have:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Visa_requirements_for_United_States_citizens.png/800px-Visa_requirements_for_United_States_citizens.png

This shows the EU and US to be a little closer to each other, and Turkey again somewhat marginalized. A map of where UK citizens can easily travel, completes the picture of NATO countries that are de facto close to one another:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Visa_requirements_for_British_citizens.png/800px-Visa_requirements_for_British_citizens.png

Again, notice that Turkey is sort of slipping away. Now, who is NATO protecting its own AGAINST? To make a long story short, look at this map:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/Ll7Fg.png

The colored areas are countries subject to the Great Khan in the 13th Century. They include China, Iran, and much of Russia... oh, and much of Turkey as well. A look at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization lat year, gives the same feel:

https://www.cfr.org/content/publications/SCO-Map-New-Members.jpg

Again, Russia and China are the main areas, along with Central Asia and, again, with Turkey on the margin. The modern-day SCO certainly isn't a Mongol league; but the two groups, separated by some 800 years of history, share the same geography.

In the long term, it's geography that dictates which way a country will go. Turkey has been a part of NATO; but it's been a PERIPHERAL part of NATO. It's also a peripheral part of the SCO and, for that matter, of the Middle East.

The counterpart to the "Mongol" half of the world, what I would call the "Great LAND Empire", is the "Great SEA Empire", aka the West. We claim to be held together by shared values; and indeed, we do share some values; but moslty, we are held together by commerce, and the lifeblood of our commerce is control of the high seas. The West consists of North and South America, Western Europe, Israel, Japan & S. Korea, Taiwan, Australia and a few countries here and there; and it is the US Navy that links us all together.

Turkey has been dancing between the idea of being "Western", "Eastern" and "Middle Eastern". Under Erdogan, it seems to be feeling its oats and thinking of itself as a fourth great bloc, a revived Ottoman Empire. Ezekiel 38-39 talks about a time, during the latter years (now) when Israel has returned to its homeland and is prospering, when it will attack Israel. WHY will it do this? Mostly geography, helped along by human nature and Erdogan (God)'s big head.

Nothing should be really surprizing in all this. HR McMaster seems to have gotten it right on this matter, in his gut feeling.

Shalom shalom :-)


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (31) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Turkey, Russia, China sliding deeper into dictatorship [197 words]Michael SApr 29, 2018 09:46242863
The Donald, POTUS, demands that Israel be admitted into NATO [628 words]RobertApr 28, 2018 09:54242850
Israel in NATO?? God Forbid! [440 words]Michael SMay 19, 2018 19:05242850
Nato membership [49 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MarcApr 23, 2018 08:56242831
1Gen. McMaster believes that Radical Islam is "Un-Islamic" [296 words]Mike RamirezApr 19, 2018 20:56242803
Mullah McMaster! [662 words]dhimmi no moreApr 20, 2018 17:17242803
Amen, Realism It Is [1 words]Gary SackApr 19, 2018 19:47242802
Holding on to Former Preconceived Notions of a Former Time is Dangerous at Best [308 words]M ToveyApr 19, 2018 15:57242799
Nobody trusts anyone [218 words]Michael SApr 27, 2018 17:56242799
Little Space Between from Imminent to Reality - Circumstances Now are Realtime [214 words]M ToveyMay 2, 2018 13:48242799
God Attacks! and the End-times Inquisition [455 words]Michael SMay 3, 2018 15:06242799
Eternal Sovereignty of the Holy One of Israel Returning For His Own [468 words]M ToveyMay 7, 2018 17:56242799
Such utter nonesense? [219 words]Michael SMay 8, 2018 14:17242799
Recognition of the Father, through the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit:Where is the Nonsense in That? [197 words]M ToveyMay 11, 2018 10:28242799
Jesus is Jesus; God is God [383 words]Michael SMay 11, 2018 18:44242799
Yeshua Was Not Mere Mortal - Only Yeshua as God Reigns in Eternity [210 words]M ToveyMay 30, 2018 17:16242799
Making Jewish blood run cold [377 words]Michael SMay 31, 2018 14:55242799
Hello, Tovey, are you there? [187 words]Michael SJun 2, 2018 11:43242799
Worshipping the Word of the LORD; The Holy One of Israel [322 words]M ToveyJun 6, 2018 11:24242799
The God of Christians [944 words]Michael SJun 7, 2018 00:25242799
Seeing a Connection in Its Full Context - Who HE Really IS [103 words]M ToveyJun 7, 2018 15:25242799
At last, we agree! Also, Ottoman history and Turkish plans [436 words]Michael SJun 8, 2018 16:02242799
And Who Agreed with Whom? [68 words]M ToveyJun 11, 2018 17:49242799
And Who Agreed with Whom? The Father and Son Agree - [362 words]M ToveyJun 12, 2018 14:01242799
Scriptures concerning Jesus and God [492 words]Michael SJun 12, 2018 14:38242799
As For Turkey and NATO -Who is Really in Control [301 words]M ToveyJun 14, 2018 14:03242799
1Spot On [81 words]Gary SackApr 19, 2018 12:14242797
Turkey's geography, history and today's situation [531 words]Michael SApr 19, 2018 06:24242795
Oops. God vs. Gog [226 words]Micael S.Apr 20, 2018 20:00242795
Perhaps better to allow Turkey to have American weapons [67 words]AnonApr 18, 2018 22:03242791
NATO's Turkish Dilemma Reflects Western Ignorance About Islam [191 words]DaveApr 18, 2018 21:52242790

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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