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OK, I think I get your point :(

Reader comment on item: Will Turks Accept the Election Results?
in response to reader comment: Psalm 27: Wait for the LORD's Timing

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Dec 24, 2015 at 19:04

Hi, Tovey.

Hummingbirds, eh? You said,

The key as it was mentioned before is that we are not done with the Church age, so
Daniel's key to the revelation has not been revealed yet; and cannot be until the Church is r[e]moved. So I cannot support any notion that says we are in any of the times for which the seal has not been broken yet.

Let's see:

Daniel 12:
[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

There's nothing there about the church being removed before the time of the end. You're mixing what Daniel said, with the modern doctrine of "dispensationalism". You continued,

"...the world wars all being typecast as judgments on a non-beleiving world that has treated His people badly, all by judgment of the Jewsih propensity for turning their collective backs on Him as well."

You said two things there: (1) that the world wars were a judgment on the world for mistreating the Jews, and (2) that the the Jews have collectively turned their backs on God.

That you believe #2 is no mystery to most Jews. In fact, it is largely because of this bad attitude that they have seen in Christians for the past 1900 years, that they don't want anything to do with the gospel. I don't agree with you here, as you might have guessed: Many Jews are very much interested in God; and few Jews can escape the fact that God has called them to be His people. Most Christians, however, want nothing to do with Torah, which Jews correctly understand was given to them by God. Why, then, should they want to hear from these people who, in their eyes, have turned their backs on God?

Concerning #1, the greatest mistreatment of the Jews happened after WWI and during WWII; so I find it hard to think of those events as judgment of the Gentiles for mistreating the Jews.

All that said, I can see why you believe what you do; and I wonder why you are even interested in Israel. As far as I'm concerned, Dispensationalism is a doctrine from hell -- but that, of course, is my personal opinion. Some of my friends are Dispensationalists. I love them, but hate their doctrine.

Going further, trying to understand you, you said,

"From this perspective, Daniel is given the outline that leads to t[he] Revelation; and Yeshua will open the scroll after the Church is removed; the covenant prophets interject their details at the appropriate times (Zephaniah is currently between Ch 2 and 3); and the Revelation Ch 4 can happen at any time."

OK, I think I see where you're coming from. From "this perspective" (i. e. Dispensationalism), most of Revelation is irrelevant to believers, namely, Rev. 6-11, which speak of the seals and trumpets; and Rev. 16 & 17, which speak of the vials. I can see why we have so little in common. That's disheartening to me; but life goes on.

God bless and keep you and yours.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (26) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Possible election fraud [104 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Joseph MeissnerDec 15, 2015 11:29227078
If they manipulated the results [29 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Anon.Dec 10, 2015 18:46226912
Military behind the downing of Russian Bomber? [59 words]Max_BNov 25, 2015 21:46226566
The downing of the plane was in Erdogan [281 words]Michael SDec 2, 2015 06:49226566
Iran and Turkey alike. [27 words]steven LNov 4, 2015 07:55226218
Will Turks Accept the Election Results? [39 words]Balarabe AbbaNov 4, 2015 06:32226214
Turkey elections [33 words]Fred SchwartzNov 3, 2015 21:04226208
Interesting times ahead [66 words]SunshineNov 3, 2015 15:54226206
Erdogan as measured by Turkish football [57 words]mythNov 3, 2015 14:29226205
2manipulating the figures according to Yes Minister and Volkswagen [174 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
mythNov 3, 2015 13:39226204
RE: Getting the numbers up [95 words]Michael SNov 5, 2015 00:54226204
regional election results [50 words]mythNov 9, 2015 07:10226204
Another map [16 words]Michael SNov 12, 2015 05:14226204
Once Again - Hostility Towards Democracy - Turkish Style [248 words]M ToveyNov 3, 2015 12:21226203
1Turkish plans to invade (ahem -- "provide havens in") Syria and Iraq [1077 words]Michael SNov 5, 2015 14:43226203
Anti-Jewish labeling, collapse of the EU, global warming and Turkey [1376 words]Michael SNov 11, 2015 14:55226203
1It's All About the Timing - And Israel's Calendar (not Turkey's) is the One to Keep [406 words]M ToveyNov 12, 2015 12:19226203
The time is 2/7 to Doomsday? [747 words]Michael SNov 21, 2015 12:00226203
When that Time Approaches, Where Does a Believer Want to Be... [235 words]M ToveyNov 24, 2015 15:51226203
Scroll in Daniel 12 [56 words]Michael SNov 27, 2015 09:01226203
How Does Daniel Apply in These Last Times [197 words]M ToveyNov 30, 2015 14:14226203
Horsemen only for Jews? [43 words]Michael SDec 4, 2015 18:54226203
The Horsemen Cometh For the Judgment of All Unbelief - Jewish and Goy [3 words]M ToveyDec 8, 2015 10:29226203
Thanks for the answer [263 words]Michael SDec 12, 2015 06:56226203
Psalm 27: Wait for the LORD's Timing [292 words]M ToveyDec 17, 2015 11:49226203
OK, I think I get your point :( [525 words]Michael SDec 24, 2015 19:04226203

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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