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Was Muhammad moderate? The answer is no and this is what the Muslim masorites tell us

Reader comment on item: Turkey, Closest to Leading the Middle East
in response to reader comment: Moderate Mahomet

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jan 26, 2013 at 18:04

Hi Ianus

I cannot speak for Dr. Pipes and you wrote

I once asked Dr. Pipes if in his opinion Mahomet was a moderate Moslem. He answered :

" Not to be facetious, but I am far from convinced that such a person even existed, much less do we have credible information about his life.

The key is what Muslims make of Muhammad, not what he did or did not do. And that is very malleable. Note this quote from Hasan Hanafi, professor of philosophy at the University of Cairo: the Koran "is a supermarket, where one takes what one wants and leaves what one doesn't want" (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=3234)."

Here is the poeblem with islam

1. Did Muhammad exist? Dr Pipes is correct if he indeed existed then we do not have the evidence (as in extant literary sources and no neither Seboes nor John of Nikiu are enough to tell us that Muhammad indeed existed or was he a real historical character and for this you need to read Wansbrough's review of Hagarism) as why would the extant Arabic language literary sources are silent about him for almost 72 years after his death and the truth is every religion must have a founder and more likely than not the masorites had to look back and invent yes invent a founder for Islam with the suspicious name of Muhammad

2. The Muslim masorites had to deal with the Muhammad whose Allah tells him that la ikrah fi al deen or the no compulsion in religion but he is also the same god who tells him to iqtoloo al-muskrikeen or kill the idolators and qatilo ahl al-kitab or fight the Jews and Christains

So how do you reconcile this poor theology?

The way out for the ulama was to tell us that Muhammad's Allah must have nasakha or abrogated the no compulsion in religion and made kill the idolators or ayat al-sayf or the sword verse is what Islam is all about

I hope that I helped


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (74) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Update? [15 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David W. LincolnFeb 1, 2013 13:19203031
2Maybe thus ...? [43 words]IanusFeb 2, 2013 04:47203031
ticking all the correct boxes [30 words]MozereFeb 4, 2013 06:23203031
1Shining light [22 words]David W. LincolnFeb 4, 2013 11:08203031
Troy avenged,Twice [305 words]MozereJan 31, 2013 10:50203000
5Which option do you choose ? [290 words]IanusFeb 1, 2013 14:19203000
4Absurd view of history [127 words]bookwormFeb 2, 2013 03:36203000
2Ianus, long version please! [86 words]bookwormFeb 2, 2013 04:46203000
4Our dear Mozere and Turkish logic [130 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 2, 2013 07:17203000
Byzantine Logics [413 words]MozereFeb 4, 2013 05:38203000
4Option d or the Turkish way [199 words]IanusFeb 4, 2013 15:13203000
5Educating poorly educated Turks one at a time and the Arabs destroyed classical civilizations [1136 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 5, 2013 08:44203000
1Turkish Proteus [327 words]IanusFeb 5, 2013 15:10203000
3Teaching poorly educated Turks and the fate of the library of Alexandria revisited [2335 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 6, 2013 09:21203000
5It seems that our dear Mozere disagrees with Allah as Allah seems to love Constantine [299 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 6, 2013 17:17203000
2THE KORAN IS THE GUILTY CHAREACTER [120 words]JACQUES HADIDAJan 27, 2013 18:33202869
maybe so mabye not [87 words]brownApr 24, 2013 01:55202869
the problerm is WHO HAS THE TRUTH [83 words]JACQUES HADIDAApr 25, 2013 12:48202869
2The Achilles heel of Turkey,Education. [217 words]MozereJan 23, 2013 05:03202745
4Achilles' heel and Koalemos' head [83 words]IanusJan 26, 2013 06:19202745
2ianus the great [169 words]havasJan 26, 2013 23:47202745
2Education in general in the Middle East [193 words]dhimmi no moreJan 27, 2013 06:48202745
2Love eveil and Turks will love you ! [250 words]IanusJan 29, 2013 01:04202745
4Our dear Havas is saying that there was no genocide because the Armenians went on holidays and never came back! [63 words]dhimmi no moreJan 29, 2013 06:26202745
3Delusions and wishful thinking [135 words]dhimmi no moreJan 29, 2013 09:21202745
Rote Learning [128 words]MozereJan 30, 2013 07:29202745
2intellectual armenians [196 words]havasJan 30, 2013 11:17202745
Education Achilles heel. [167 words]moJan 30, 2013 15:50202745
4Turks and their flawed logic [403 words]dhimmi no moreJan 30, 2013 18:57202745
2The Armenian Genocide and those that deny it! Shame on them [92 words]dhimmi no moreJan 30, 2013 19:03202745
2If you see evil and don't hate it you are part of it. [117 words]IanusJan 30, 2013 19:29202745
4Turkish victimization comedy revisited [762 words]IanusJan 31, 2013 02:07202745
3Love evil and Turks will love you . (the end ) [124 words]IanusFeb 1, 2013 13:31202745
2evil turks [174 words]havasFeb 1, 2013 16:05202745
4Turks don't know what "shame" means [183 words]IanusFeb 1, 2013 18:35202745
2And speaking of evil [128 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 3, 2013 07:38202745
2There is no compulsion into rationality [991 words]IanusFeb 3, 2013 17:17202745
turks [158 words]brownApr 24, 2013 01:34202745
On turks and Minerva [25 words]IanusApr 25, 2013 01:29202745
what is sharia [214 words]havasJan 22, 2013 16:35202725
Turkish success [88 words]Nazim CairoJan 21, 2013 17:30202714
Bad translation ? [43 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JoséJan 21, 2013 17:05202713
In ref: Shari'a Law [89 words]Mike FranklinJan 21, 2013 14:40202712
2Moderate versus extremist Islam [179 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Doug MayfieldJan 21, 2013 13:08202711
"Turkey, Closest to Leading the Middle East", Article 1-21-13 [57 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
marthafJan 21, 2013 11:54202710
Turkey, Closest to Leading the Middle East [69 words]Ilbert A. PhillipsJan 21, 2013 11:22202709
2Islam is not comparable to comunism and fascism while Kemalism is ! [140 words]IanusJan 26, 2013 14:58202709
1Turkey, Closest to Leading the Middle East [173 words]JudithJan 21, 2013 11:11202708
1Turkey changes [300 words]MikeKuJan 21, 2013 04:48202700
8The more Turkey changes the more it remains the same thing [1531 words]IanusJan 26, 2013 05:23202700
7The Turks and their bloody history [198 words]dhimmi no moreJan 28, 2013 07:33202700
1Just curious [90 words]IanusJan 31, 2013 16:36202700
4Egypt and the dark ages and islam [499 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 1, 2013 07:37202700
2A good old Mahometan tradition [610 words]IanusFeb 4, 2013 16:13202700
It is the Market Economy dear boy [517 words]MozereFeb 5, 2013 04:48202700
5More questions and few answers and the Arab invasion of the Middle East and beyond and the dark ages [1398 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 5, 2013 13:58202700
1A lousy reader [310 words]IanusFeb 7, 2013 10:47202700
1Strange points [1063 words]IanusFeb 7, 2013 12:18202700
3History and its mimesis and the problem of the sources [565 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 8, 2013 18:28202700
3I am the one voice crying in the wilderness. [176 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
monique shanabargerJan 21, 2013 01:25202694
How our U. S. Government views the questions to which you responded [192 words]Fred E. VanosdallJan 21, 2013 00:34202693
2Know Islam [252 words]NuritGJan 20, 2013 22:07202689
In spite of Islam [44 words]Ron ThompsonJan 22, 2013 17:19202689
5Fake claims and stolen symbols of Mahometans [649 words]IanusJan 25, 2013 03:41202689
3A moderate Islam in Turkey? I don't see it [363 words]Ron ThompsonJan 20, 2013 21:52202688
7Ataturk - the ex-jihadist as a new born "secularist" [581 words]IanusJan 25, 2013 01:42202688
5Moderate Mahomet [490 words]IanusJan 25, 2013 04:59202688
4Was Muhammad moderate? The answer is no and this is what the Muslim masorites tell us [335 words]dhimmi no moreJan 26, 2013 18:04202688
1If I were a Moslem... [98 words]IanusJan 27, 2013 15:56202688
3The Islamic historical tradition [353 words]dhimmi no moreJan 29, 2013 08:24202688
2Responses to your interesting Comments [726 words]Ron ThompsonJan 30, 2013 12:32202688
6Turkey, cognitive dissonance and Judas Iscariot's kiss [1772 words]IanusJan 30, 2013 23:45202688
1Excellent [23 words]Tom DundeeJan 20, 2013 20:43202687
10The Turks and their delusions [343 words]dhimmi no moreJan 20, 2013 13:46202685

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