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Muslim mobeds (Zoroastrian priests) and Muslim rabbis of early Islam and Islam and historical continuity

Reader comment on item: The Left Distorts Breivik's Mental World
in response to reader comment: It's a little more complicated

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Aug 12, 2012 at 07:41

Doug wrote

You cannot separate the founder of any religion from that faith, since it's practiced based on their directives. The teachings of Mohamed as stated earlier are only an extension of the social order he lived under, and are irreconcilable with the practice of peace.

This is far from the truth and in the words of Patricia Crone the great historian of early Islam: Religions do not spring fully fledged from the heads of prophet, old civilizations are not conjured away (see Slaves on Horses: Historiography) which means that the historical evidence that we have about the origin of Islam was all made up 2-3 centuries after the death of the historical Muhammad and I include here the anachronistic hadith, the sira which would not have existed if the Qur'an did not exist or in other words it is not an independent historical source about the life of Muhammad and even the literary source called التاريخ or al-tarikh or the history of early Islam is full of holes and for sure Muslim historians were not witnesses to the events they were writing about and the end result is that the great German historian Noth was able to destroy any hope that we can believe the Arab historians of early islam and for sure they were not Herodotus and all their writings were no more than قصص or stories of fiction

Oh the Qur'an? as was proven by Wansbrough that the Qur'an we have now could not have existed in the form we have now (the Cairo or Tunisian Qur'ans) without the great work of the Muslim masorites in the 3rd century of Islam and indeed without the great Muslim mobed al-Tabari we would not have a Qur'an the likes of the Cairo Qur'an

Wansbrough makes a very good case that Islam indeed was developed in Mesopotamia in the third century of Islam as a result of debates in a "Sectarian Milieu" and it is clear that those that developed what was to become Islam were rabbis and mobeds and indeed the debates among the early Muslim ulama were very rabbinical and in the words of Holland (see In the Shadow of the sword page 408):

Finally there were ever increasing numbers of converts "part of their religion still remain within them" So Rav Yehudi the rabi of Sura had observed of those mobeds who turned to Islam. But what of those Muslims who had once been rabbis was the same to be observed of them? if so that would certainly help to explain why the sunna (السنّة ) just like the Torah aimed to regulate every dimension and aspect of human existence why it should have forged for itself chains of transmissions such as rabbis and only rabbis have previosly deployed"

And here is an example the Qur'an says that the punishment of those that are involved in extra-marital sex is الجلد or whipping but if you turn to the sunna and the hadith and the shari3a you will only find the Biblical prescription of stoning or الرجم which really means that the Muslim rabbis brought with them and in the words of Rav Yehudi "their old religion" and this also means that there must have been a disconnect between 632CE when Muahhamd died and the late 2nd and 3rd century of Islam when the Muslim mobeds (the likes of al-Tabari) and the Muslim rabbis were writing the books of Islam and it also means that the rule of the Qur'an early on in developing Islamic theology was marginal at best and why would it be this way? and it most likely was no more than a Qeryana (Syriac ܩܪܝܢܐ or lectionary) and not the Qur'an القران (the reading) that we have now

And indeed to those Muslim rabbis the idea of the θεός ἄνθρωπος was unaccepted and it very well could explain the very confusing and the many contradictions in the story of "Jesus in the Qur'an" and the nature of the Jewish God or Elohim and his reincarnation as the Islamic God Allah الله

Even the sira of Muhammad (his biography) was written by Ibn Ishaq whose grand-father was a Christian and Syrian and indeed he brought the Peshitta with him and the likes of البرقليتوس (the paraklete) and the Syriac ܢܚܡ (nahem or he who rises from the dead) in the form of the Arabic word المنحمانا or al-munahimana that you he uses in the sira and more evidence that Islam was no more than made up later on and only after the death of Muhammad

And you must be aware that even the islamic claim that Islam was about historical discontinuity is far from the truth and indeed the great German historian Karl Becker proved with ease that islam is no more than historical continuity in his celebrated: "so bizarr es klingt ohne alexander den grossen keine islamiche zivilisation" and this indeed seems to be thuth about what really happened in early Islam and I'm sure if Muhammad indeed existed and some how he comes back to this earth he will not recognize Islam at all and he most likely with think it is a syncretic religion with Jewish/Christian and above all Zoroastrain ideas

One final point: Ali Dashti tells us in his great biography of Muhammad "23 years or bist o seh saal " that 70% of the books of were written by what I would call Muslim mobeds

Oh the Arabs? The rule of the Arabs in their Islamic civilization was marginal at best

Submitting....

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