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'war'-Its Inevitability Already Forecasted

Reader comment on item: Ambitious Turkey
in response to reader comment: war

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Sep 19, 2011 at 16:07

Let us open with the mention in the last paragraph of your previous observation; "I am personally angry to(wards) you people."

There are many reasons from which are born the issues of anger, hatred. You mention you cannot 'hate Jews totally,' but you state there is hatred: therein lays the problem-hatred. It is not 'just an issue,' it is a fundamental issue. It is brought forward to lead this counter observation; that hatred blinds when truth is trying to let the light in. Without understanding things in the light of truth, then all is argumentative and nothing good will emerge.

Your opening line in response to the observation I have made is a characterization that if democracy is given a chance in Arab/Muslim countries, then the people can enjoy lives of freedom and riches. This seems to contradict the tenets of those who are trying to obtain control over a people they appear to consider incapable of governing themselves without resorting to the 'immoral' ways of democratic societies. It is a western concept that freedom of the individual is allowed to be expressed without government interference, a concept not readily applicable in places that are trying to impose shari'a law.

You indicate that Turkey is no longer under a 'military' dictatorship; that Erdogan and the people of Turkey are not under the influence of the military. This is not the face being presented to the West. Further, the military in Turkey has conscripts under Muslim ideological influences, which in and of itself, is just as influenced as those who serve in the Egyptian military. While the old guard leadership is sidelined, those who bear allegiance to the new government are just as they were in the past-only the order of hierarchy has changed.

If, as you allege, that Mr. Erdogan and Turks in general are not Islamist in nature, then there is a great misunderstanding that is assumed by more than Dr. Pipes and others of my persuasion. This is not surprising, for it is widely reported in the media not controlled by the west of the things presented to the local population which is different than that presented to the west. Were that true, then it would seem that other powers are in control and the Turkish people are under some illusion not being presented by the powers that be. The question could be posed-in whom does one trust?

Now in the background of this you bring up Israel as a concern, as well as you should; for if things continue the way they are going, your allusion to war is not far off. In that regard, Turkey's position in the Middle East has always made that land susceptible to the intentions of invaders and marauders alike, a situation that unfortunately for the Turkish people is not likely to end soon.

You appear to be under the presumption that former imperialist powers are still at play, that the Arab/Muslim world would be better off not engaging in business with them. It is not that simple. There are few, if any, modern governments that can claim to be empires; that the powers of money behind the government are the brokers of investment strategy with politics being tools to further their aims. But a greater power is behind that as well, and Turkey appears too caught up with that also.

Now Israel is, indeed, faced with a dilemma of global proportions, and if it is not already guessed, Turkey is already embroiled with that, by their own volition being placed on the front lines. It is inescapable. But here is a clue-Israel will fare better than Turkey. Turkey, just as it happened in the former Ottoman Empire, will find itself wondering after it is all done-what happened? You pose that you hope you do not go to war. Unfortunately, Erdogan and his government, with the military in full colusion, have already engaged in the preliminaries leading up to it. It is their pride that cannot be stopped that will be the cause of dashing your hopes

Submitting....

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Reader comments (70) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
I am Confused about your historical analysis [118 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Vance PainterJul 17, 2015 08:47224294
6Dellusions of Grandeur - A bit of humility may be warranted, dear Turkish friends [1004 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 19, 2011 11:40185353
imperialism [200 words]havasMay 29, 2011 02:46185353
11Turkish delusions: our dear Havas is saying that al-rabi3 al-3arabi (the Arab spring) is because of Turkey and its little mavi marmara [911 words]dhimmi no moreMay 30, 2011 07:57185353
17"It is not Islam's Fault that Muslim People are backwards"....Contradiction in itself, dear Havas [2176 words]Michel C ZalaMay 30, 2011 13:08185353
4India and Pakistan and islam [312 words]dhimmi no moreMay 31, 2011 07:12185353
1Turkish Hipocrisey. [114 words]aspaciaJun 10, 2011 13:05185353
islam problem? [111 words]havasSep 12, 2011 12:39185353
1Turkey's Problem Will Not Be With Islam Alone [459 words]M. ToveySep 14, 2011 15:32185353
war [457 words]havasSep 17, 2011 04:32185353
1'war'-Its Inevitability Already Forecasted [675 words]M. ToveySep 19, 2011 16:07185353
How unfair. [90 words]MuratNov 1, 2011 18:13185353
Try researching before making claims [23 words]KerryNov 1, 2011 20:11185353
1how unfair, go inside to know exactly why [332 words]muslimJun 25, 2013 05:25185353
4Ok Great, now go back to work. [181 words]PrashantJun 27, 2013 21:28185353
2Why Muslims backwards [223 words]boussaidDec 9, 2013 02:05185353
questioning islam? do a little research first! [219 words]saraDec 23, 2013 12:24185353
3Islam and fantasy [1313 words]dhimmi no moreDec 24, 2013 16:53185353
Why Muslims backwards [139 words]boussaidDec 27, 2013 15:38185353
IMO [270 words]edJan 17, 2014 13:26185353
3The Amazigh and Islam [435 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 6, 2014 17:56185353
1islam will rise again [55 words]sabAug 12, 2014 06:07185353
true pic of Islam [33 words]Rao MujahidAug 18, 2014 04:35185353
Islam Not to Be Blamed for Muslims Backwardness [141 words]syed sardar BadshahSep 10, 2014 07:29185353
rigid interpretations in the noble quran [141 words]MauriceNov 1, 2014 07:47185353
1Turkey [53 words]NiyazApr 17, 2011 22:13184385
i am happy turkey is back to its islamic roots [47 words]syed mohammad aliApr 17, 2011 11:47184371
1Turkey has Moved into Biblical Position - Is the World Really Ready for What's Next? [630 words]M. ToveyApr 18, 2011 12:18184371
8I am happy as well that Turkey is returning to its Islamic roots. [99 words]PrashantApr 18, 2011 22:38184371
2Someone needs a reality check [36 words]YovenApr 21, 2011 10:57184371
1Prashant's pipedream [76 words]janApr 21, 2011 15:58184371
2Time will tell whether Islamism in Turkey will bring prosperity or failure [141 words]PrashantApr 22, 2011 01:15184371
Dear [270 words]janApr 24, 2011 04:20184371
3Islamists in Turkey [114 words]PrashantApr 26, 2011 03:47184371
2I urge our dear Jan to leave islam and IRHAL (get lost) from England part deux [153 words]dhimmi no moreApr 26, 2011 07:44184371
1Islamism as a Tool of Erdogan's Will Bring Failure in Turkey [184 words]MarianApr 29, 2011 01:24184371
Khilafat and Muslim Ummah [25 words]Carlos de SouzaMay 25, 2011 07:46184371
Muslim murder Muslims more than any other force worldwids. [8 words]aspaciaJun 10, 2011 13:18184371
3atatürk and akp [400 words]havasApr 17, 2011 03:29184348
1Turkey runs true to color [24 words]Frank LukeApr 15, 2011 15:00184292
1Erdogan's Turkey [166 words]Jay1Apr 14, 2011 20:53184260
response to your "Ambitious Turkey" article [309 words]Prof. A. S. ArgonApr 13, 2011 12:30184225
3Turkey [208 words]Joe Six-PackApr 16, 2011 10:06184225
Read both sides [89 words]aspaciaJun 11, 2011 09:20184225
Related Articles [17 words]Emile TubianaApr 13, 2011 08:23184219
Dear Dr. Pipes [393 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 12, 2011 21:23184201
9Turkey is a tragedy. [293 words]batya daganApr 12, 2011 17:27184187
Ahmet Davutoglu has explicitily stated that the Qaddafi family must abdicate their power. [2 words]somaApr 12, 2011 13:35184186
The Smell of Smoke in Turkey [338 words]M. ToveyApr 12, 2011 13:04184184
6Turkey is a good country [19 words]SephardiApr 12, 2011 18:18184184
1Turkey at the Crossroads - Again [627 words]M. ToveyApr 14, 2011 12:37184184
3Reponse to Turkey at the Crossroads- Again [413 words]SephardiApr 15, 2011 18:45184184
1catholic priests [13 words]BulanikApr 22, 2011 16:27184184
Prophecies should be left in place of worship. [41 words]aspaciaJun 11, 2011 10:12184184
Turkey nonhostile? [39 words]aspaciaJun 11, 2011 10:15184184
Shephardi is living in Oz [11 words]aspaciaJun 11, 2011 10:20184184
Spiritual (Such as Prophetical) Things are Not Confined to Buildings Called Church [747 words]M. ToveyJun 13, 2011 12:03184184
An Indepenent Turkey Remains to be Seen [478 words]M. ToveyJun 14, 2011 16:00184184
1YAWN! [155 words]aspaciaJun 14, 2011 17:23184184
Oh Well - At Least You Knew the Words at One Time [161 words]M.ToveyJun 15, 2011 18:38184184
4Turkey [104 words]aliApr 12, 2011 11:48184181
5Turkey [31 words]HerzelianApr 13, 2011 18:56184181
turkey [169 words]aliApr 14, 2011 05:29184181
4Perceptions of Inequities- Gaza does Not Present the Best Intentions Turkey Can Offer [164 words]M. ToveyApr 14, 2011 17:01184181
Kurds [44 words]BulanikApr 22, 2011 16:46184181
Turkey is not friendly with Israel [6 words]aspaciaJun 11, 2011 10:22184181
2ali is antiJewish [50 words]aspaciaJun 11, 2011 10:27184181
4The Khaliphate arises again [115 words]yuvalApr 12, 2011 08:54184174
1Khaliphates Hold No Special Power over the Power of Israel's Almighty God [199 words]M. ToveyApr 12, 2011 18:51184174
4No place to run and hide. [39 words]batya daganApr 12, 2011 23:42184174

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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