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Modernity or modernized barbarity ?

Reader comment on item: Goodbye Ankara
in response to reader comment: "Turkey ... a model of modernity and moderation for other Muslims to follow"

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Sep 11, 2011 at 15:01

Dr. Pipes wrote :

>but my article was not about attitudes toward Jews, it was about Kemalist Turkey as a whole. While there were many problems with it, it was the most successful Muslim country of the Middle East in adopting to modernity.<

You also mentioned "moderation", didn't you? And I guess that a government's attitude towards its own Jewish minority can serve as a fairly good indicator of its moderation or lack thereof. If discrimination, pogroms, extortionist taxes and forced Turkification may be used as an indicator of anything, then hardly of moderation of the government that has consistently applied these measures.

A broader question is, of course, what is "modernity" ? I understand it as meaning in principle two things.

1/ For me it is essentially humanism, enlightenment, freedom of thought and speech which we didn't have in pre-modern times and most probably won't have them when modernity is replaced by any other alternative.

b/ But, obviously, modernity can also have another, purely technical and organizational meaning. It implies technology and its production - machines, power stations, infrastructure, industrial potential, and advanced weaponry like jet planes, tanks, bombs etc.

I am not sure to which kind of "modernity" you are speaking of "the most successful Muslim country of the Middle East in adopting to modernity"? If measured by the first criterion Turkey fails as dismally as the rest of the Middle East, except Israel of course. But I agree it doesn't if one measures it by the second criterion. Billions of US taxpayers' dollars, enormous technology transfers and investment in production and infrastructure in Turkey over the last six decades, mass purchases of the most advanced weapon systems from the US, Israel and Germany , a massive know-how and training transfer have made Turkey look externally modern. But Turkey in this sense seems to be as successful in adapting technical modernity as Saudi Arabia or Jordan which also rely heavily on transfers of Western technologies.

Anyway , a more interesting and disturbing question is now, how the primary aspect of modernity or its lack is related to the secondary purely technical side of modernity ? I mean what happens e.g. when we have no humanism but modern highways and trucks ? Then maybe we can use them not only to transport oranges and sunflower seeds from Iznik to Istanbul quickly and safely, but also a few extra trucks full of stones and patriotic thugs ready to smash the windows of the Jewish shops in the Istanbul district of Beyoğlu during a pogrom we are planning to stage to show the "cowardly" Jew who is the boss in the house? When we have no enlightenment worth the name and yet boast of being the second-biggest NATO army equipped with the most advanced arms available on the world arms markets, then maybe we will gladly use our napalm purchased abroad to burn as many Greeks in Northern Cyprus alive as we can blaming them for perpetrating a genocide against the Turkish minority there ? When we have no freedom of thought and speech and yet an extremely efficient, ruthless police force excellently equipped in terms of technology and a modern prison system from which no one can ever escape if once trapped inside, then most probably in a short time our prisons will either be crammed with dissenters and insulters of Turkishness and Ataturk or out of fear of our technical efficiency dissent and criticism will disappear for good ?

To sum up, I am afraid that modernity à la turque - i.e. external, technological modernity without humanism, enlightenment and freedom of thought and speech- amounts in fact to modernized barbarity. And I am afraid that this kind of "modernity" isn't so new but has quite a long tradition in Turkey. You may see it e.g. at the beginning of Kemal's career when the Soviet generals, engineers, technicians and advisers contributed their best in terms of transferring Soviet technology and know-how to modernize Kemal's army thus enabling him to finish the Armenian genocide and commit two new genocides (against the Greeks and the Assyrians). One can argue that a bit earlier technology transfer from the Kaiser's Germany to modernize the Ottoman state not only allowed the Turks to win at Gallipoli but also to exterminate the Armenians. And going even deeper into Turkey's history one could argue perhaps that the super-cannon made by the Hungarian engineer Urban for Mehmet II was also an effort to modernize the Turkish army by using the most advanced technology available in the mid-15th century.This ultramodern cannon smashed the otherwise unassailable walls of Constantinople and thus enabled the Turks to conquer the city and enslave its infidel population.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (77) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
3Genocide recognition [39 words]RafiSep 22, 2011 18:50189491
7That outrageous official position no decent person can ever support [222 words]IanusSep 25, 2011 09:51189491
2Turkey, NATO and Israel [108 words]KenSep 12, 2011 19:02189296
3If ONLY Turkey, NATO, vs Israel [121 words]M. ToveySep 14, 2011 18:07189296
14Goodbye Ankara ! Good morning Athens! [391 words]IanusSep 12, 2011 11:56189293
Why so much against Turkey? [724 words]li lrSep 9, 2011 19:15189210
4why so much against Turkey? [103 words]Liz K.Oct 27, 2011 17:51189210
2Proud of what ? [61 words]IanusOct 29, 2011 13:01189210
5Islamist Demon vs. Reason [20 words]MosheSep 8, 2011 04:36189179
Dear Dr. Pipes [527 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 7, 2011 04:36189150
1To Be NATO, or Not To Be NATO; That is the Question....Etc., Etc. [399 words]M. ToveySep 8, 2011 14:19189150
1Dear Mr. Tovi [302 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 10, 2011 00:16189150
1Turkey at the Edge of Its Destiny [250 words]M. ToveySep 13, 2011 11:37189150
Dear Mr. Tovi [231 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 20, 2011 11:39189150
1The Coming and Going of 'Ummah' - What Will It Cost When Israel Wins [600 words]M. ToveySep 22, 2011 12:14189150
1The Time is Approaching for Turkey [106 words]M. ToveySep 6, 2011 14:02189143
4A Warning [152 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Clifford IshiiSep 5, 2011 19:34189125
1i never knew [70 words]Ali LawalSep 5, 2011 18:48189124
There is difference between the two [57 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiSep 7, 2011 10:59189124
3Relationships are About MUTUAL Respect-Who is Respecting Israel Now? [534 words]M. ToveySep 7, 2011 11:37189124
Hi Mr. Tovey [255 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 8, 2011 01:45189124
5Debanjan Banerjee's hypocrisy [123 words]PrashantSep 9, 2011 00:24189124
3Searching for Respect for Israel [364 words]M. ToveySep 13, 2011 11:20189124
2Watch Turkey by its action not its word! [131 words]BASep 3, 2011 23:15189075
1Turks are going to solve the Kurdish problem very soon [170 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 8, 2011 01:55189075
4Debanjan Banerjee's utopia [76 words]PrashantSep 9, 2011 00:12189075
My answer to Mr. Prashant [189 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 10, 2011 00:01189075
Zionist Amicus Curiae [174 words]M. ToveySep 13, 2011 19:33189075
Dear Mr. Tovi [471 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 20, 2011 12:02189075
4More hypocrisy [195 words]prashantSep 21, 2011 03:06189075
Not All Zionists View Zionism the Same [646 words]M. ToveySep 21, 2011 19:01189075
1My answer to Mr. Tovey-Continuing [1181 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 23, 2011 07:10189075
1Dear Mr. Prashant [826 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 26, 2011 00:32189075
1Ask the Right Questions-Get the Right Answer [572 words]M. ToveySep 26, 2011 16:05189075
1My Reply to M Tovey--- Continued [807 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 28, 2011 10:54189075
1Preaching the Real Point [770 words]M. ToveySep 28, 2011 15:51189075
More to MR. Tovey [524 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 28, 2011 22:31189075
And To Debanjan [766 words]M. ToveySep 29, 2011 19:24189075
Well, Now You've Done It. [51 words]M. ToveySep 29, 2011 19:28189075
More Answers to Mr. Tovey [467 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 2, 2011 00:02189075
1Time for Repentance is Short - Now is the Appointed Time [180 words]M. ToveyOct 3, 2011 19:01189075
3Saw it coming [43 words]HudsolSep 3, 2011 20:14189072
1Turkey's new goals: restore the caliphate and lead the Middle East. [46 words]PSep 12, 2011 01:48189072
18Turkey is a turkey who's time has come. [157 words]Cherif El-AyoutySep 3, 2011 04:51189053
2Goodbye Ankara [44 words]David RoseSep 3, 2011 03:45189052
2Hello Ankara [180 words]Jay1Sep 2, 2011 23:52189049
2Time for the reckoning [36 words]Rebecca MouldsSep 2, 2011 22:37189048
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4Goodbye Ankara [68 words]Paul SeverienSep 2, 2011 20:14189039
3Turkey will be a test case [87 words]PrashantSep 5, 2011 02:21189039
3No more Turkey [10 words]RomanSep 2, 2011 20:02189038
9Turkey has fumbles the Israel-Turkey relations ball [154 words]NuritGSep 2, 2011 19:54189037
4about your article above [32 words]peyamiSep 2, 2011 19:52189036
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11"Turkey ... a model of modernity and moderation for other Muslims to follow" [3934 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
IanusSep 8, 2011 11:41189036
10Modernity or modernized barbarity ? [783 words]IanusSep 11, 2011 15:01189036
1you are totally wrong [107 words]MAliSep 24, 2011 16:43189036
6Enemies and friends of barbarity [496 words]IanusSep 25, 2011 10:51189036
1after careful reading ... [660 words]M.AliSep 26, 2011 14:17189036
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4Wolves and their "love" [232 words]IanusSep 29, 2011 10:26189036
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4Liars on truth [220 words]IanusOct 2, 2011 13:39189036
Dear Mr. Ianus [176 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 2, 2011 23:00189036
5The most important dates in human history 490 B.C., A.D. 717, A.D. 732 [867 words]IanusOct 4, 2011 15:32189036
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ianus [149 words]Safa BalOct 15, 2011 17:28189036
5Atavistic Turks [249 words]IanusOct 15, 2011 20:21189036
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1Turkey : A Nation in a different zone in a different time [36 words]jacob smithMay 24, 2012 01:39189036
2The happiness of following "the Turkish way of thinking and perception" [273 words]IanusMay 25, 2012 17:22189036
1The Sepharadic Jews of Suleiman the Magnificent used to be the majority of the Jews. Nowadays the Ashkenazi Jews are the majority... [524 words]Petros HouhoulisJan 23, 2014 19:46189036

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