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Want to Spot a True Christian? Look at the Love he/she has for his/her Redeemer

Reader comment on item: Middle East Studies in Upheaval
in response to reader comment: To spot a Christian

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Aug 8, 2011 at 16:21

The circumstance of reality is that I am stuck with English, the language of where I was born, a language that is a conglomerate form of thought expression that at once can be made to form poetic notions; and yet can be guttural and used to hide truth and deceptions. It is circumstantial also, that at many times, just like you, each of us will communicate as our thought processes form and I will concede that having learned English in a decidedly American forum lends to difficulties when dealing with English taught from a different mindset. That having been said, I can use any English version of the Holy Bible, two of the Spanish versions, a very small amount of Farsi; and yes, a certain amount of the Hebrew Aramaic and Koine Greek to determine that whatever the Holy Spirit can use to get His message across, I will listen to the Holy Spirit for His message, no matter how He chooses to teach me. But note, my English does not define my relationship with Jesus Christ.

Now, in your effort to dissemble what I said about Christianity, you, like so many who appear to have to discredit Christianity to give affirmation of your unwillingness to believe the WORD of the LORD, take too much credit for thinking that you have more knowledge than the LORD about the spiritual things being witnessed about Jesus Christ. How it is that any human thinking with the logic and reasoning of a corrupted human mindset can place itself above the thought process that created the universe and keeps it going moment by moment- breath by billions of breaths-heartbeat by billions of heartbeats? Is your life not precious enough to consider that He who made you and keeps you alive does so for a purpose better than the one you now serve?

But let us set aside for the moment the issues of which is better, whether your view of the Quran supports your belief system and the Holy Bible is the basis for mine, conceding each has their own reasons for belief. In that view, however, you make the inquiry "would it not have been better to give that 'biblical' understanding rather than verses you know I do not believe in?" Further you state, " on a theological point – Muslims fail to understand why Christians think that God has to lower Himself and not the other way around – Humans have to rise up to meet understanding of divinity." Then understandably, there is "I cannot fathom that one." Then "that is why I describe Christianity as among the weakest faiths. It is illogical to the extreme." Quite a conundrum, isn't it? Thirty five years ago, I would have agreed and been friends. Yet, I have had greater disagreements and still had friendship. However, under that guise, permit me to take this in a different light.

Since our major disagreement is based on disparate views of the Biblical narrative, and you surmise -"would it not have been better to give that 'biblical' understanding rather than verses you know I do not believe in?" - we must first conclude that your view about the Holy Bible comes from a distrust that was inculcated early - just as my opposite perception was. You did not learn a Biblical perspective so you could not believe, yet as I was taught specific Biblical things, I did not fully believe them then either, questions abounding. Others in my familial and church surroundings, taught the same way as I was, do not believe in faith to this very day. If an Almighty God is as powerful as we were being taught, the questions about how certain things were allowed and how humanity has to go through the things we do, when and where is His power displayed if we cannot see it to formulate belief? Do you see the dilemma? If you knew and understood the decades of delving through the first twenty years of disinformation in the supposed 'Christianesque' (Christianity practiced without the power of its source) environment of my youth in order to search out truth based upon a new non-human reasoning application of Scriptural Truth, then this might be easy. Trust me on this one - it is not.

To gain a true to the WORD of the LORD Biblical understanding, everything-virtually all that was learned under the 'logic of religion'- must be discarded, whether as applied by faithless Christian ethic, Buddhist, Judaic, Islamic, etc. In actuality, one of the best places to gain entry into such insight is from the least religious book of the Holy Bible, the book of Job, considered by many to be the oldest. In it, one will read of a person that predates all the law of the Holy Bible and gives the reader a chance to discern how mortal humanity interacts with Deity without religious context.

First, the thing to notice is the personal way the whole episode begins, viewing an environment and situation no human could ever devise, let alone stage. Personal-does anybody think that the attacks on Job by the Adversary were not personal the way Job was singled out for what was to befall him? The next part is enough to send chills down a believer's spine, let alone an unsuspecting non believer; for it calls to mind every human fear of the frailty of life and the terminal nature of our very existence. But it needs to be read, in its entirety, to get the an initial response from the reader; then read over and over again to get to the meat of the matter: how does mere mortal man have a chance against an Almighty Eternal Sovereign if a relationship cannot be established due to mankind's inability to reach God?

Then, after the calamities that befell Job, how does he take it? While still hurting in ways I cannot fathom in this American frame of mind, Job declares that the LORD can give and take as He pleases, whether considered fair or not. Again, there is the relationship issue – are we able in our mortality to argue that Almighty God is unfair to act in His own ways and manners? That is like asking the question: is Almighty God not God? Still, how does one get to the personal relationship that true Christianity says it has with Almighty God? Job gives a clue – but we'll come back to that.

Jobs 'friends' surround him and give all sorts of advice as to how to deal with his tragedies. They all end up making the wrong arguments, laying ill advised charges at Job's feet for being something we are already told he is not – an unrighteous man. In his pain, Job takes up the challenge and makes his first of many observations, coming to a conclusion that causes him to confront Almighty God with what we might call the 'why' question. Now it gets personal, and Almighty God responds – personally.

We learn in a non-law environment that the Almighty God that is Creator is in charge of everything, from the first breath we take, to the last, and beyond. We also begin to get the idea of His holiness, that character of His Being that cannot be humanly approached, answering the dilemma – "why Christians think that God has to lower Himself and not the other way around – Humans have to rise up to meet understanding of divinity"….it is because humans have no capacity or power as mere mortals to do so. It is also the patently false premise of any religion, that in order to get closer to God, mankind-powerless to approach God in any fashion-still tries and fails to understand that mankind cannot.

But we can read through the dialogue and realize that Job does get to the really personal way Almighty God reaches to Job (and not Job reaching up)-the LORD speaks to Job. The LORD speaks to Job in a logic that exceeds any human reasoning-like telling Almighty God how many worlds are there-we surmise that there are millions, even billions: but has any human a remote idea of how to count them all, let alone any actual counting? The computer that could approach doing that has not been conceived of yet, nor likely will ever be. The logic that mankind can 'reason' with God is in reality, the true illogical argument. But more importantly, the LORD speaks to Job in His compassion for what Job has been through, and eventually provides for his escape of relief. The love bond that matures from that is eternal.

Let us move beyond the prior illogicality you mentioned, determining that mankind cannot even approach a holy God let alone that mankind can advance an argument that God should listen to mankind at all. Why should a holy God even give mankind a chance when all that mankind does is defy Almighty God in the vilest rebellion of hatred for the things of God. Almighty God says to love-and mankind hates and kills without the love of Almighty God. How would one humanly logically expect a holy God to handle that, in human terms? Mankind has not been able to handle that one yet. If a man in his own pride 'demands of God' what that man thinks he is due, is there not the expectation that a holy God would reject that in righteousness. Mankind has no righteousness at all to be making any such demands. We see that even Job, who was declared 'righteous' in the beginning by Almighty God, could not make that demand.

Now, one might say that Job has a relationship with Almighty God without Jesus Christ, until as I said earlier, we address the clue Job gives as to how he relates to Almighty God. Job declares, "I know my Redeemer lives." Job, as we are told has righteousness in the beginning-why the need for a Redeemer? Because Job has come to the realization that by himself, he cannot have a relationship with Almighty God-he needs His Redeemer. This is the beginning of how the illogicality of human reasoning cannot reconcile itself with a holy Almighty God. The Redeemer is necessary. From there, there is no escape. Sinful humanity needs to seek the plan provided by Almighty God – and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who is my Redeemer, takes its lead in my life.

Now I could go on but I'll refrain.

Want to spot a true Christian? Look at the love he/she has for his/her Redeemer, the one who has promised eternity with Him in response to faith in Him, Jesus Christ. In its simplicity, this is really all I can share with you – His love. All the rest becomes religion, and you already have a good idea how that works. Separate Jesus Christ from the box that religion puts Him in and see how He loved you enough to provide a way to eternity and peace with Him. That is the true Christian witness.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (131) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Upheaval Coming from the Middle East - Study Shows Nothing New Under the Sun [648 words]M. ToveyAug 11, 2011 13:43188297
3The future of Mankind! [142 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
YovenJul 25, 2011 16:23187692
1MUSLIM 'MAJORITY' BIGGER PROBLEM THAN RADICAL MUSLIMS. [224 words]IamJosephAug 12, 2011 19:43187692
Is Islam disintegrating [57 words]TedAug 14, 2011 01:15187692
1RE IS ISLAM DISINTERGRATING. [445 words]IamJosephAug 15, 2011 04:32187692
Disintegration of All Religion - Only Truth Remains [286 words]M. ToveyAug 16, 2011 18:34187692
1Utter weakness of Islamism [58 words]SHANKAR SHARANFeb 7, 2012 08:31187692
5The study of islam in the 1990's and post the 9/11 atrocity. Doubts and questions [689 words]dhimmi no moreJul 17, 2011 08:34187482
4Father Zakaria Botros is back on the air [159 words]dhimmi no moreJul 15, 2011 08:03187424
1Difference [49 words]WisewomanJan 28, 2012 05:21187424
3We need more Zakaria Botros' and Islam and Islamists will be on the defensive [50 words]dhimmi no moreJan 31, 2012 07:41187424
1Liberal Academia [40 words]MaxJul 14, 2011 18:34187398
Upheaval in Middle Eastern Studies [96 words]I.M. FlaksJul 10, 2011 10:19187140
9The study of islam post-1969 and post John Wansbrough [1101 words]dhimmi no moreJul 10, 2011 09:43187139
But I am still asking where is your Arabic? [70 words]Amin RiazAug 10, 2011 19:22187139
1Islamic drivel [108 words]dhimmi no moreAug 12, 2011 05:52187139
19The study of islam post-1969 and John Wansbrough [1448 words]dhimmi no moreJul 9, 2011 08:29187119
1Middle East studies in the Middle East [419 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Norvell DeAtkineJul 8, 2011 12:41187106
1great post. [104 words]Evan MarkJul 6, 2011 12:47187065
11The study of islam pre-1969 [820 words]dhimmi no moreJul 5, 2011 21:06187052
1Koran Arabic [90 words]UgriJul 7, 2011 09:51187052
Speculations on Specualtions [131 words]Amin RiazJul 14, 2011 21:33187052
Speculations Cannot Prove Truth [160 words]M. ToveyJul 18, 2011 14:43187052
Bible - a very different proposition. [93 words]Amin RiazJul 18, 2011 19:41187052
Jesus - His Divinity as Only the Holy Bible Can Present It [1259 words]M. ToveyJul 21, 2011 17:17187052
To spot a Christian [608 words]Amin RiazAug 5, 2011 22:52187052
3Closed minds prescribing "quran as the final word" [405 words]PrashantAug 6, 2011 23:03187052
1Want to Spot a True Christian? Look at the Love he/she has for his/her Redeemer [1843 words]M. ToveyAug 8, 2011 16:21187052
Sheer nonsense [439 words]Amin RiazAug 9, 2011 11:32187052
1Spotting a Christian - What to Look For [975 words]M. ToveyAug 9, 2011 11:35187052
5Our dear Amin is saying that islam is also a failure! I smell a fatwa here! [128 words]dhimmi no moreAug 10, 2011 08:14187052
1 Corinthians 1:18 [111 words]M. ToveyAug 10, 2011 18:25187052
What happened to your Arabic? [46 words]Amin RiazAug 10, 2011 18:57187052
A one way Christian [80 words]Amin RiazAug 10, 2011 19:28187052
1The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book [69 words]dhimmi no moreAug 11, 2011 07:06187052
Was Never Anything Else After Jesus - for Now, For Eternity [8 words]M. ToveyAug 12, 2011 18:07187052
5Our dear Amin the glorious graduate of wahhabi central and Muhammad and Wansbrough [785 words]dhimmi no moreAug 14, 2011 10:38187052
7GLARING and MASSIVE mistakes in the Qur'an and this time surat al-ikhlas [173 words]dhimmi no moreAug 14, 2011 10:52187052
Where is your Arabic? [126 words]Amin RiazAug 15, 2011 13:49187052
2O glorious graduate of wahhabi central [50 words]dhimmi no moreAug 16, 2011 15:38187052
... know otherwise.... [171 words]Amin RiazAug 16, 2011 20:20187052
2The islamic comedy goes on and on [308 words]dhimmi no moreAug 20, 2011 16:04187052
3And what happened to allah's Arabic? and the Quranic disaster of the day [222 words]dhimmi no moreAug 20, 2011 16:55187052
1Where is your Arabic? For Crying Out Loud [210 words]Amin RiazAug 20, 2011 20:19187052
A question of Evidence! [145 words]Amin RiazAug 20, 2011 20:25187052
More mistakes....and pretences. [17 words]Amin RiazAug 20, 2011 20:26187052
Evidence Does Not Necessarily Arrive at the Same Verdict [590 words]M. ToveyAug 24, 2011 16:17187052
World in 50 yrs .... [149 words]Amin RiazAug 25, 2011 01:26187052
Fifty Years? Fifty Weeks? How About Fifty Days.... [314 words]M. ToveyAug 31, 2011 15:41187052
2Corrections to Mr. Riaz's claims regarding the Bible [693 words]John G. Spethman MDSep 5, 2011 02:31187052
Getting basics wrong... [936 words]Amin RiazSep 6, 2011 04:28187052
2Answering Mr. Riaz [730 words]John G. Spethman MDSep 9, 2011 01:35187052
1A lack of Basic Knowledge of Christianty [2057 words]Amin RiazSep 10, 2011 05:24187052
2Our dear Amin O glorious graduate of wahhabi central cannot read Arabic! what a fadiha [133 words]dhimmi no moreSep 11, 2011 10:00187052
3This is your bogus Arabic our dear Amin [209 words]dhimmi no moreSep 11, 2011 10:11187052
2You have made Muhammad unhistorical [116 words]PlatoSep 15, 2011 13:22187052
If you are going all logical on me .... [160 words]Amin RiazSep 15, 2011 20:51187052
Out classed. [128 words]Amin RiazSep 15, 2011 20:56187052
If you were ever going to err on Idioticness. [109 words]Amin RiazSep 15, 2011 21:01187052
1Muhammad just an Arabican unicorn? [646 words]PlatoSep 19, 2011 11:49187052
Basic Christianity-Its Simplicity Without Canon [33 words]M. ToveySep 19, 2011 18:59187052
Basic Christianity-Its Simplicity without Canon-II [254 words]M. ToveySep 20, 2011 11:59187052
Amazing! [69 words]Amin RiazSep 20, 2011 20:31187052
2Teh Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part one [235 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2011 07:04187052
4The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part deux [185 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2011 07:12187052
3The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part trois [152 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2011 07:20187052
5The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part four [147 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2011 07:27187052
5The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part five [186 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2011 07:46187052
3The 9 lame reasons given by Muslims to explain the big time Quranic disaster in hadhan (sic) lasahiran part five [168 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2011 08:26187052
9The so called Mullah Abdul Rauf and the 9/11 atrocity and islamic hypocrisy and ignorance [301 words]dhimmi no moreSep 25, 2011 08:54187052
9The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part six [260 words]dhimmi no moreSep 26, 2011 06:59187052
3The 9 lame reasons given by Muslims to explain the big time Quranic disaster in hadhan (sic) lasahiran part seven [225 words]dhimmi no moreSep 27, 2011 07:30187052
14The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part seven [396 words]dhimmi no moreSep 27, 2011 08:00187052
11Missing verses and more Quranic diasaters: goats and missing verses read and laugh [312 words]dhimmi no moreSep 27, 2011 14:38187052
11More Quranic disasters and this time al-darba al-kabeera or the big bang theory! read and laugh [296 words]dhimmi no moreSep 28, 2011 07:30187052
6The 9 lame reasons given by Muslims to explain the big time Quranic disaster in hadhan (sic) lasahiran part eight [163 words]dhimmi no moreOct 2, 2011 07:43187052
4The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part eight [219 words]dhimmi no moreOct 2, 2011 08:07187052
6More Quranic disasters and the pegs of tents that prevent earthquakes read and laugh [216 words]dhimmi no moreOct 2, 2011 08:34187052
1Teaching Arabic to wannabe Arabs [42 words]dhimmi no moreOct 2, 2011 08:40187052
5For the readers: the Qur'an as a text [215 words]dhimmi no moreOct 3, 2011 06:57187052
Context of the Text [493 words]M. ToveyOct 5, 2011 11:28187052
2The Qur'an is the most edited so called holy book part nine and justifying the absurd [229 words]dhimmi no moreOct 7, 2011 07:56187052
5The 9 lame reasons given by Muslims to explain the big time Quranic disaster in hadhan (sic) lasahiran part nine [189 words]dhimmi no moreOct 7, 2011 08:08187052
6More lame reasons to justify the big time Quranic disaster in hadhan lasahiran [106 words]dhimmi no moreOct 7, 2011 08:17187052
3The Quranic disaster in hadhan la sahiran and justifying the absurd [113 words]dhimmi no moreOct 7, 2011 08:25187052
10More Quranic disasters Allah loves the Jews and he hates the Arabs and he tell us that the Arabs are hypocrites [260 words]dhimmi no moreOct 8, 2011 08:13187052
5More lame excuses by Muslims to justify the Quranic disaster in hadhan lasahiran [251 words]dhimmi no moreOct 9, 2011 08:30187052
6The Quranic disaster in hadhan lasahiran and modern Arabic [320 words]dhimmi no moreOct 9, 2011 08:58187052
2The Quranic disaster of the day: Allah says that islam is the religion of the Hijazi Arabs only! [241 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2011 14:06187052
3The Quranic disaster of the day: Allah says that islam is the religion of the Hijazi Arabs only! part deux [222 words]dhimmi no moreOct 20, 2011 08:37187052
1The Quranic disaster of the day: Allah says that islam is the religion of the Hijazi Arabs only! part four [83 words]dhimmi no moreOct 22, 2011 09:10187052
3The Quranic disaster of the day: Allah says that islam is the religion of the Hijazi Arabs only! part five [94 words]dhimmi no moreOct 23, 2011 10:10187052
9The islamic disaster of the day: Sheikh al-Azhar is saying that Muslims are really kuffar! [161 words]dhimmi no moreOct 23, 2011 10:21187052
1The Qur'an says it is the religion of the Arabs only part six [165 words]dhimmi no moreOct 29, 2011 14:30187052
can you answer the question [13 words]KayTNov 21, 2011 04:51187052
What is it that is left to answer? [90 words]Amin RiazNov 21, 2011 19:57187052
Comprehensively Beaten. Trounced. [100 words]Amin RiazNov 21, 2011 20:06187052
Showing up.... Dhimmi - What Again? [207 words]Amin RiazNov 21, 2011 20:33187052
Context-Yet Again [294 words]M. ToveyNov 28, 2011 11:49187052
Unity in Hate! [107 words]Amin RiazNov 28, 2011 16:34187052
Context-Yet Again II [11 words]M. ToveyNov 28, 2011 18:14187052
Known By the Fruits - Hate Fills Where Love is Empty [54 words]M. ToveyNov 30, 2011 18:13187052
1Extra-biblical sources that were ancient enemies confirms the historical fact of ancient Israel [161 words]Abu NudnikJul 5, 2011 18:05187049
Israel's historical facts & Palestinian mythology [401 words]REXJul 15, 2011 01:37187049
2Uncovering the real history [175 words]Lujack SkylarkJul 16, 2011 13:39187049
1False History [395 words]REXAug 6, 2011 13:47187049
1Response to "Middle East Studies in Upheaval" [97 words]Andre DelageJul 5, 2011 14:27187046
see Fjordman on Edward Said [126 words]...Jul 5, 2011 12:26187044
The revolution in history is far bigger than the Middle East [79 words]TL WinslowJul 5, 2011 12:03187043
1My former comment about Islam [165 words]Carmen Waggoner Ph.D.Jul 5, 2011 10:46187042
1Reassurance for Dr. Waggoner, Israel, and America [252 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEJul 6, 2011 23:00187042
1not SUPRISED [43 words]Carolyn StokesJul 5, 2011 08:54187038
Agree and disagree [60 words]stuart teichJul 5, 2011 08:46187037
1Change in Middle Eastern Scholarship [108 words]Ilbert PhillipsJul 5, 2011 07:37187034
What people don't know can actually hurt them. [122 words]Roland E. St. GermainJul 5, 2011 07:32187033
GREATEST POST-W.W.II CRIME: THE CORRUPTION OF THE BALFOUR.. [73 words]IamJosephJul 5, 2011 05:26187032
Corruption of the Balfour [277 words]Lujack SkylarkJul 16, 2011 15:45187032
Re: "Europeans are too dumb to see that Iranian missiles can hit Europe as well as Israel." [352 words]IamJosephJul 16, 2011 20:47187032
Great Delusions [61 words]Amin RiazAug 9, 2011 11:37187032
Upheaval Surrounds Israel - For Good Reason [406 words]M. ToveyAug 11, 2011 14:34187032
Re. evicted for non-payment of rent (tribute). [94 words]IamJosephAug 12, 2011 00:39187032
No delusion - Israel never died - but Mighty Rome did. [306 words]IamJosephAug 12, 2011 00:58187032
What comes around goes around. [53 words]Amin RiazAug 12, 2011 07:27187032
Quoting Scripture - Quite Interesting [83 words]M. ToveyAug 12, 2011 18:13187032
The Great Religious Delusions [25 words]Amin RiazAug 12, 2011 19:29187032
NATURAL, HISTORICAL, LEGAL RIGHTS ARE BLATANT WITH ISRAEL. [345 words]IamJosephAug 12, 2011 21:51187032
But Which Great Religious Delusion Put Israel in the Land? [518 words]M. ToveyAug 15, 2011 11:31187032
Not Always About the Money-Much of the Time Yes- But Not Always [286 words]M. ToveyAug 15, 2011 11:54187032
THE ROMAN-JEWISH WAR WAS NOT ABOUT MONEY. [297 words]IamJosephAug 15, 2011 19:44187032
IT SEEMS... [112 words]IamJosephAug 15, 2011 20:49187032
The truth [36 words]RexFeb 5, 2012 17:13187032

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