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CURMALLY: In the motherland of Islam diya for a woman is half a man's. We reform our religions, Muslims refuse unless forced.

Reader comment on item: Dueling Fatwas
in response to reader comment: Dueling Fatwas- reply to Plato

Submitted by Plato (India), Oct 23, 2010 at 00:08

Curmally your wrote to me:

>>I am replying to you point by point as you do. I think you have done what you did because of a certain insecurity. However, here goes<<

I hope my insecurity gives you some solace.

I hope my insecurity gives you some solace. But from the record Muslims are very insecure about Islam and its prophet. You fail to realize that an long-dead honourable person needs no defence. We not see Christians and Buddhists or Jains having to defend their religion and founder with the violence Muslims do. That itself tells you that your religion and its prophet need violence to keep their soiled reputation under wraps.

>>Akbar did what he did because he needed support for the throne he sat on. Sher Shah Suri and the Afghans were in command then as Sher Shah Suri had chased out Humayun, Akbar's father out of India into Iranbring about a syncreticism of Hindu and Muslim thought. This was the basis of the Indian Muslim Revivalist though that started with Mujadid Alif Thani.<<

What is the point of this bit of history. It shows that Akbar was inclusive in his behaviour (he was only about 20 when he married her). That set off the revivalist behaviour (sounds much like the revivalist movement of the Wahabis). Is syncretism of Hindu and Muslim thought such idea. You have not said anything.

>>About wearing a ring with the word Prabhu inscribed on it.Dara Shikoh's younger brother Aurangzeb had him put to death. This is history.<<

That is what I also wrote. But you seem to have no issue with a brother Aurungazeb killing his brother because suspected he apostatized. I suspect it is because it is death for apostasy in Islam. Apostasy is an interesting concept to pursue. Though they are the cause of many fatwas, I will not pursue for fear of digressing.

>>Aurangzeb moved on to purify Islam in India because the syncreticism that started with Akbar had given cause to a sufism or Islamic mysticism to go overboard.<<

One of his means of purifying Islam was by re-imposing the jiziya tax his forefather Akbar had abolished. I can see how that would have been seen as a re-imposition of Islamic values and pleased the mullahs no end. Aurungazeb ended Muslim-Hindu syncretism and with that he also put signed the death warrant of the great Mughal empire in India. But his de-syncretism did not extend to his army mostly Hindu Rajputs. He had to depend of Akabar's wise move to retain his own power.

>>The death of a foremost mystic Sarmad is a case in point. This led to the rediscvery and reinterpretation of Islam in India.<<

Not death, but execution probably because he was a favourite of Dara Shikoh. Legend has it that Sarmand's execution was the reason for Aurangzeb's troubled rule. He was always at war.

>>A king tried to change it and failed. His sons and grandsons did not agree with what he had done. I'm sorry I cannot give a value judgment that you require because it has happened and there is no way I can change it.<<

Islam kept changing over the centuries. Sufism is still a very strong force all over the world, especially Pakistan and India. The Shias, the Ahmadias all prove that Islam has changed from the original pure variety of the prophet.

>>Which Muslim woman can dress as she please, you say. Haven't you seen Muslim women in India and the way they dress? My Grandmother, Mother, Wife, Daugheter and Daughter in law her mother and Grandmother my cousins their wives and nieces have always dressed as they chose. The Burqa is on its way out in Pakistan. Did you know that ?

What then are the dress codes of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan. Good to know that the burqa is on the way out in Pakistan while it reappears in France, the UK and even in India where it has become very prevalent.

>> Islam never prescribed the Burqa it prescribed modesty.<<

Islam never prescribed circumcision, female genital mutilation, or stoning to death (A hadith says Aisha said it was there in the Koran but a goat ate the only copy which she had kept under her bed during the confusion following the prophet's death)

>>About Jazya, it is a Quranic prescription.<<

I see you have not made a value judgment about this verse. Actually there is no need to make a value judgment as elsewhere in another post you quoted a translation which clearly said jaziya is protection money.

>>The Muslims in India, Afghanistan and some parts of central Asia, follow the most liberal of all Islamic schools of law , the Hanafi school, realized they could not kill all the idol worshippers in the Kingdom, to they turned a blind eye to it but did not encourage it and levied additional taxes on idolators.<<

How lucky for the Hindus and Buddhists of the Indian sub-continent that they came under the Hanafi jurisprudents. You are saying the vast numbers deterred them from massacring the entire population of idol worshippers. This means that if the population of idol worshippers were within manageable numbers even the "most liberal of all Islamic schools of law" would have demanded whole sale decimation. So they decided to make the best of a bad situation and imposed the jizia tax as to protect them from the Islamic sword. And I notice you have not made a value judgment. Despite the Hanafites turning a blind eye to idol-worship which makes Allah go into a rage, over a thousand years Muslims did manage to kill an estimated 60 million.

>>That again is history and you or I can't change it.<<

Right it is history. Now what can you not change? The fact the liberal Hanafis turned a blind eye to idol-worship instead of massacring them?

>>Having Read RadhaKrishnan's translations of the Upanishads I maintain they are great. I will not compare the Quran e Karim which incidentally is a divine revelation with the Upanishads as I will not compare the Bible with the Upanishads. <<

The Bible, the Torah and the Gita are also divine revelations according to their believers. Why do you give that honour only to the Koran? The Koran and the Upanishads are incomparable. One is truth which has to be accepted under threat of punishment and the other is a search for truth.

>>It is not good manners to say anything contrary about any one's beliefs or their religious books.<<

If you believe it is necessary to fight and kill for not believing like you (Koran 9:29, 9:5….) then it IS good manners to say something contrary to prevent mayhem in the world.

>>Our way of prayer is the way the Prophet prayed and we emulate it. I am unable to pray and make prostrations as prescribed, so a chair is …... So what is the point you are tying to make?<<

I have no idea which part of my reply you are referring to but I guess is about the ritual of wudu before prayer and the content of your prayers. If so then I was not talking about blind emulation of the prophet. Prayers as we understand is communion with god or asking him to forgive you for some sin or for some favour. When you recite Surah 111 you are reciting a totally inane verse which is really a curse verse by Allah. So also what is the point of praying by reciting the story of Zainab's unfortunate marriage to Zayed? I hope you get the point I am trying to make now.

>>Yes we have legislated equality or women.<<

How in Allah's name can you do that with verses like 004.011
YUSUFALI: Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females:

Do females siblings get the same as their brothers in Pakistan in explicit rejection of this verse?

OR

002.228 YUSUFALI: ……... And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.. [CONTRADICTION : HOW CAN THERE BE EQUALITY IF MEN HAVE PRECEDENCE OVER WOMEN?]

If you have legislated for equality for women then congratulations, you have managed to break the shackles of sharia.

The Saudis know what Allah wishes for women and it sure is not equality as this report shows:

SAUDI ARABIA BLOOD MONEY:

100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man

50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman

50,000 riyals if a Christian man

25,000 riyals if a Christian woman

6,666 riyals if a Hindu man

3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman

Source: The Wall Street Journal, April 9, 2002

This shows Manu is not the only lawgiver who discriminates against women.

>>You forget the First Wife of the prophet( peace be upon him) was a Trader and had her caravans going all over Arabia and Palestine and probably into parts of what is now Turkey and Iran.<<

The first wife of the Prophet was a rich businesswoman much before he married her. Marrying her, he made the jump from being her employee to her husband freeing to enter the prophecy business. If he remained her employee could have he spent days in caves or waiting for revelation to strike him?

The moment she dies he begins his marrying spree. He could not have legislated against women or taken more wives with her alive as he was totally dependent on her for money. So to give the example of Khadija doing business is pretty inappropriate as showing Islam treating women as equals. What it proves that during jahilia times women were freer and could look after themselves instead of depending on men. Koranic verses after the death of Khadija made women subservient and inferiour to men and totally dependent on them. Curmally, prove to me using Koranic verses, or even the hadiths, that women have equality in Islam.

>>It might pay for you to differentiate between religion and social customs. Should you do that, it would be much easier for you to understand the questions you raise.<<

It would have helped to quote anything I said which shows mixing of custom and religion.

>>Plato, you cannot deny that Sati exists even today in India. I cannot say for sure whether this is a religious prescription or a social custom but is known to exist, and therefore I seek an answer from you to enlighten myself on the matter.<<

The last sati I heard of was one in Rajasthan and it created such a hue and cry that if it takes place at all, it must be done in the greatest of secrecy (I would think this is almost impossible except in very remote areas.

I would class sati as a cultural phenomenon as in India even religion is a cultural phenomenon as there are many variations to Hindu beliefs ranging from even atheism to polytheism and monism. You could surf the web to gain more knowledge. I skimmed through this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

I think like, you will draw a blank on sati if you ask most Indians about it as we are only dimly aware of this practice which was banned by the British.

>>In much the same way female circumcision does exist even today in certain parts of Egypt and surrounding areas. But this is not prescribed in the Quran e Karim. Try and understand that the example and the reference a reader gave, was a Hadith. ….. So there is always an element of social customs in the prctice of religion in any given area. ….. I got a local tasbih that had a hundred beads. Tasbihs should have 99 beads because of thrn 99 names of Allah (swt). This is another example of local customs.<<

Why do you want to be so defensive about FMG? Circumcision is also a form of mutilation and also shows that humans are meddling with Allah's creation. There is no sanction for circumcision in the Koran. Why would Allah create a piece of skin if He wants it removed?

>>Unfortunately, we have had religious fanatics amongst us. They have turned militant. The Pakistani Army took them on and gave them what for. They are scattered today but they exist.<<

They exist because they were bred in the schools and madrassas of Pakistan and nurtured by the government of Zia and now you are finding them too hot to handle. Your nation will spiral into chaos if you continue with the hate that is taught in your schools and madrassas (I hope you have gone through the reference I gave you to what is contained in your school texts).

>>In much the same way, you have the Rashtrya Savak Sangh and other extremist bodies in India.<<

Are you trying to compare the RSS with the LeT, Jamad ud dawa and such other terror outfits? How many RSS incidents have you recorded in Pakistan or Baluchistan.

>>Can you deny that even today you are practicing Shuddi and Sangathan? <<

When you first asked I wondered what the hell is Shuddi and Sangathan. I googled the words.

Conversion and shuddhi

Note: The term 'shuddhi' literally means 'purification'. It refers to the re-conversion into the Hindu fold of non-Hindus, especially of those Hindus who have been converted to other religions by hook or crook. The word 'shuddhi' has been retained throughout in this section. Prohibition of shuddhi or re-conversion was one of the seven shackles that chained Hindu society in Savarkar's time. Savarkar's assorted views on the other six shackles are given in another section. Given below is an English translation of Savarkar's assorted views on 'conversion and shuddhi'

http://www.savarkar.org/en/social-reforms/conversion-and-shuddhi

http://www.indianetzone.com/3/shuddhi_movement.htm

This seems to be a forgotten movement of the early twentieth century to re-convert people back into the Hindu fold. What is so terrible about it. They never went about conversion with a sword or force and it seems to be a spent force now. Not even Muslim friends have heard of it which would not be case if they were a threat.

I googled sangathan also and saw no threatening groups there. The first site was that of schools.

>>Can you deny that laws laid down regarding caste have caused the caste system to cease to exist? After all, the system of castes were prescribed in the Manu Smirti weren't they?<<

The caste system existed for more than a thousand years. It is part of the cultural landscape of the country and you can't expect it to disappear in a generation since the laws banning caste discrimination came into effect. But if you look at the caste composition of our governing bodies you will see interesting figures for changes in their composition since the first elections were held.

The architect of the Indian constitution, Ambedkar, was a victim of Manu's laws. The people who put him in that position were Nehru, Gandhi, Patel, rajgopalacharia and other Brahmins and high castes. Does that tell you something?

>>The Buddhists and the the World at large went haywire when the statues at Bamyan were desecrated. Didn't you read the newspapers or watch tv?<<

I do watch tv which is why I am surprised you say the Budhists went haywire over Bamiyan. Maybe Indian tvs did focus on Buddhists going haywire. All I can recall is Japan pleading with Mulla Omar to allow them to dismantle them and cart them away. I also googled 'Buddhist violence bamyan destruction with not much luck. Some violence in Burma was all I could find. Now try googling "Danish cartoons muslim violence."

>>What was done by the Taliban was wrong.because they didn't destroy statues but hit out at a religion. This is intolerance.<<

Curmally just do a thought experiment: Imagine the Prophet standing in front of the statues sacred to the atheist Buddhists with his army . What would his order have been? Do I need to spell it out? Mullah Omar was only the right thing according to Islam. Don't blame the intolerance of the Taliban, blame the intolerance of Islam.

>>In much the same way Ms Sonia Gandhi was not permitted to become the Prime Minister despite the fact she was the head of the Indian Congress party for the simple reason that she was a foreigner and was not Indian born. Can you deny that? <<

Well Kissinger could not have become the President though he was a citizen but foreign born. That you can put down to the intolerance of the American constitution. In India we do not have such a discriminatory law but social acceptance for such an event is low. But remember nothing important happens in India without Sonai Gandhi's (Italian born) approving nod.

In Pakistan even natural born Hindus, Christians or Ahmedias can ever aspire to be prime minister or president because your constitution has demoted them to second class citizens.

>>As for the Kaaba being blown up, threats of this nature have been made before and we shall see what will happen if such a thing is tried.<<

Who threatened to blow up the Kaaba?

>>Have we asked you to prove Hinduism requires proof of its greatness? Islam is proof in itself and the fact that there are over 1.25 Billion Muslims in the world is also proof of that. Who are you to ask for proof?<<

Show me one sentence from my posts where I have asked for proof the greatness of Islam. All I have done is to show that Islam is not the great religion it claims to be. That is not the same as asking for proof of its greatness.

Numbers do not prove any truth or greatness. Five hundred years ago almost all of humanity believed the sun went round the earth. And almost 5 billion do not think much of Islam. Does that convince you that Islam is false????

>>Have you asked Christians or Jews to give proof that their religion is worthy of respect.?<<

Nor have I asked any Muslim.

>> Be careful of what you say.<<

Another threat?

>>In the USA there have been cases of burning the Quran e Karim wiping themselves on pages of the Quran e Karim after defecating. You should read the CAIR site for examples.<<

There are article on Danilepipes on the deceptions that CAIR indulges in. Just go to the search field on the right hand top corner and put in CAIR and see what comes up: Just a sample:

Of particular note are the American Muslims who reject CAIR's claim to speak on their behalf. The late Seifeldin Ashmawy, publisher of the New Jersey-based Voice of Peace , called CAIR the champion of "extremists whose views do not represent Islam."[4] Jamal Hasan of the Council for Democracy and Tolerance explains that CAIR's goal is to spread "Islamic hegemony the world over by hook or by crook."[5] Kamal Nawash, head of Free Muslims Against Terrorism, finds that CAIR and similar groups condemn terrorism on the surface while endorsing an ideology that helps foster extremism, adding that "almost all of their members are theocratic Muslims who reject secularism and want to establish Islamic states." Tashbih Sayyed of the Council for Democracy and Tolerance calls CAIR "the most accomplished fifth column" in the United States. And Stephen Schwartz of the Center on Islamic Pluralism writes that "CAIR should be considered a foreign-based subversive organization, comparable in the Islamist field to the Soviet-controlled Communist Party, USA." http://www.danielpipes.org/3437/cair-islamists-fooling-the-establishment

According to a CAIR press release issued today, the office manager for its Arizona chapter, Bushra Khan, was shopping along with two other head-scarved young Muslim women on April 29 at the Desert Ridge Marketplace in Scottsdale when a middle-aged couple approached them calmly and asked if they were Muslim. After an affirmative reply, the couple indicated they had just watched the film United 93, became enraged, and told the women, "Take off your f**king burqas and get the f**k out of this country. We don't want you in this country. Go home."

Now, I was not present at the Desert Ridge Marketplace when the alleged incident took place, but I do have my doubts about Bushra Khan's reliability, for CAIR's staff has a history of making claims about "hate crimes" and "Islamophobia" that do not stand up to scrutiny. It has also played loose with the facts in other ways. Here is a bibliography, to be updated as needed, of this problem:

…………

Plus, there is the unforgettable episode uncovered by Robert Spencer at "Stalinism at CAIR: photo doctored for Islamic correctness" that has to be factored in to any discussion of believing what CAIR says. (May 12, 2006)

May 13, 2006 update: Douglas J. Hagmann of the Northeast Intelligence Network notes two points about the alleged incident at Desert Ridge Marketplace. First, it grew and grew in CAIR's propaganda against United 93, to the point that the director of communications for its Sacramento Valley office, Dina El-Nakhal, claimed on the basis of this incident alone that the movie "has affected Muslim communities across the nation." Second, Hagmann investigated what happened at the store and found no confirmation for it. Here is his conclusion: "Although it might well have taken place as described, my investigation found no police report, no incident report on file with mall security, and no independent confirmation of this incident of verbal assault." http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2006/05/bibliography-my-writings-on-not-trusting-cair

Anyone can put up a web site and put up fabricated stories on it. The above two reports show that CAIR have no compunction if fabricating tall tales of intolerance against Islam in America.

>>Yes my country has seen blood shed and intolerance of the worst type.<<

You are solely responsible for the bloodshed and intolerance. Your schools and madrassas are a breeding ground for such behaviour among Pakistanis as I showed you from my excerpts from a report by Pakistani researchers on what is taught in government run schools. Why do tolerant Pakistanis not rise up against the harm done to young minds in your schools? What are you afraid of?

>>You forget we have been a front line state for 30 years and counting. The damage done to the Pakistani social fabric is enormous.<<

You did the damage to yourself with your accepting the Wahabi invasion of your madrassas and schools. That is what is tearing up your social fabric. Can you name any other reason?

>>As long as our borders are destabilized, we will be this way.<<

If you keep seeking strategic depth in another country and sending terrorists to India and start incidens like Kargil (Musharaff said he had no regrets and is proud of it) how can you expect to have stable borders?

>>But this does not explain the Jammu and Kashmir killings and the Naxalite movement. What is your excuse? <<

The killings are a result of your direct encouragement of 'azadi'. Every nation will fight to preserve its integrity. We do not want a balkanized India which is what will happen if the 'azadi' they have in India is given up for an Islamic kind of 'azadi'. As soon as that happens the Hindus and Buddhists will decline to low percentages that you see of Hindus in Pakistan from the once high numbers (more than 20%). No azadi for them but extermination or expulsion or conversion. That is the excuse.

The Naxalite movement is not going to go away completely as long there is economic disparity in the country. As the economy gathers pace and prosperity trickles down the Naxalite movement will wind down.

>>Neither country has forgotten or forgiven partition .<<

What is there for you to forgive? You were the ones who demanded partition.

>>Perhaps India which claims to be shining could give Pakistan it's share of the assets along with the interest accrued thereon. It was Pandit Jawahirlal Nehru held back Pakistan's share of assets in India.<<

One of the reasons Gandhi got assassinated for was his going on a hunger strike to force Nehru's government to release the money. I believe almost all of it was given. If something remains you owe huge reparations for the wars you initiated (contrary to the history you learned in school. Now even your own historians are sheepishly admitting the Kashmir incursion, '65 war were on your initiative. You treated East Pakistan worse than the British treated undivided India. So don't blame us for the result.

>>I am sad that I have had to say what I have said. I have tried to be gentle. Knowledge is not meant to hurt anyone but is to be used for betterment of this world. Do you agree?<<

Knowledge, in the form information, if biased has hurt more people than you can imagine. A case in point is Pakistani schools where disinformation and hatred about Hindus and India is taught as revealed by your own educationists (read my previous post). I think this is what is hurting not only Pakistan but also the rest of the world in the form of terrorism, the biggest export item from your country. Because you have been hard-wired by your madrassa and school curricula to hate non-Muslims ordinary Pakistanis exult when your export yields bloody results. But the strategy of a thousand cuts instead of bleeding us has resulted in your hemorrhaging from deeper self-inflicted cuts.

Wake your it is time to re-educate yourself on how to live in a multi-cultural, multi-religious world.

With Regards

Plato

Submitting....

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Title Commenter Date Thread
point being? [78 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
TajNov 1, 2010 14:35179819
1peace train,really? [25 words]gemNov 14, 2010 02:35179819
get on the train... [107 words]TajNov 18, 2010 14:30179819
5Oh Islamophobia? Really? [67 words]dhimmi no moreNov 20, 2010 07:43179819
The big question [25 words]DelcambreOct 20, 2010 10:05179480
Interesting, well written article. Great cartoons. [2 words]Lynne TorgersonOct 16, 2010 21:07179324
3Ban Tribal Fatwas from civilized world [57 words]Muslimk***Oct 16, 2010 04:03179297
1Your Suggestion Permits Islamic Terrorism To Kill Without Notice [38 words]Tom DundeeNov 12, 2010 10:32179297
5bad news as usual [417 words]vladutzOct 14, 2010 17:34179260
1to Vladutz [56 words]PJMOct 15, 2010 16:06179260
Thank you [16 words]GetRealOct 18, 2010 10:17179260
3American Civil Liberties Union brand of logic [488 words]Jules PostenOct 9, 2010 19:38179124
3Just another infidel [796 words]MikalOct 9, 2010 08:54179112
Since when ... [266 words]William EastOct 23, 2010 14:37179112
respond [21 words]abdussalamOct 30, 2010 16:28179112
response [91 words]GetRealNov 4, 2010 07:34179112
1Thank You [36 words]Tom DundeeNov 12, 2010 10:37179112
3Send the Cartoons to Me. [13 words]Tom DundeeOct 8, 2010 10:40179084
1Dueling Fatwas [65 words]jacob gangOct 7, 2010 01:08179050
3Gonadal Insufficiency [79 words]TopnifeOct 6, 2010 22:58179045
2Perfect Analysis of the Situation [26 words]Truth SayerOct 6, 2010 19:37179038
1Insurance? [50 words]Wayne WagnerOct 6, 2010 15:23179034
5Islam at war [71 words]Joe Six-PackOct 6, 2010 11:19179032
1Norris picture [17 words]daniel kennedyOct 6, 2010 08:39179031
Out of (self) control [162 words]John BOct 6, 2010 04:00179025
1Fatwha [57 words]Jacob GangOct 6, 2010 00:04179021
3Where is the moral clarity over useful idiocy [265 words]NuritGOct 5, 2010 23:04179019
2Islamic army is marching...will the west fight back [284 words]James ThomasOct 12, 2010 16:37179019
2wrong idea [190 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 13, 2010 04:57179019
Many of Us Will Fight Back [78 words]Tom DundeeNov 12, 2010 10:43179019
1U.S. Government and Rushdie Rules [17 words]aspaciaOct 5, 2010 20:37179015
1better than a fatwa [40 words]mythOct 5, 2010 19:04179013
70A Proclamation Against Death Fatwas from Islam [625 words]Ron ThompsonOct 5, 2010 18:34179011
1Petition to the free world [29 words]steven LOct 5, 2010 22:52179011
some disagreement on some of the five observations [159 words]mythOct 5, 2010 18:25179010
1How [125 words]Trevoir BorgnessOct 5, 2010 18:02179009
1Libs Are The Only American Cowards [35 words]Tom DundeeOct 8, 2010 10:44179009
Where is the outrage? [120 words]batya daganOct 5, 2010 17:19179007
Dueling Fatwas [98 words]steven LOct 5, 2010 15:59179004
Where's the outrage? [64 words]S ISACOct 5, 2010 15:22179001
1I have a suggestion for your "outrage" ... [200 words]kmanOct 5, 2010 23:05179001
The Only safe place [129 words]yuval Brandstetter MDOct 11, 2010 16:44179001
Cost of Freedom [75 words]S ISACOct 5, 2010 14:51178999
Superfriends! [17 words]BrentOct 5, 2010 14:45178998
Are you sure? [12 words]Abu NudnikOct 5, 2010 13:43178993
The U.S. has gone farther than Israel [89 words]AlanOct 5, 2010 13:23178992
Molly Norris [210 words]UgriOct 5, 2010 12:11178989
Awlaki "inexplicably released"/ [16 words]Martin E. WeinsteinOct 5, 2010 11:35178987
Long Life [29 words]Jan KotOct 5, 2010 11:18178985
1Dueling Fatwas [130 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 5, 2010 10:02178984
2At the moment I hate ISLAM [27 words]aspaciaOct 5, 2010 20:39178984
6Pathetic attempt to label Islam only a "religion" ... [45 words]kmanOct 5, 2010 22:47178984
9a wide range of targets... [125 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 6, 2010 02:51178984
the Grand Infidel is correct again [17 words]Truth SayerOct 6, 2010 19:42178984
2Not as tolerant as we used to be??? [342 words]CanadianChrisOct 6, 2010 20:17178984
1Dueling Fatwas -Reply to aspacia [53 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 6, 2010 23:34178984
Dueling Fatwas- Reply to the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan [230 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 6, 2010 23:54178984
Dueling Fatwas- reply to kman [297 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 7, 2010 00:23178984
2Hypocrite [48 words]aspaciaOct 7, 2010 19:58178984
1Lying is condoned in Islam [11 words]aspaciaOct 7, 2010 20:13178984
5I don't need any books from the Saudi funded school University of Berkely, "Fazal" ... [321 words]kmanOct 7, 2010 20:22178984
"Islam" is a NOT just a religion ... [18 words]kmanOct 7, 2010 20:30178984
1Here is a "custom" of your "religion" out of the Hadith Book 008, number 3371: ... [269 words]kmanOct 7, 2010 20:47178984
Dueling Fatwas [1786 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 01:50178984
4no religion is higher than truth [193 words]the Grand Infide of KaffiristanOct 8, 2010 03:45178984
12quaint customs [1091 words]the Grand Infide of KaffiristanOct 8, 2010 06:05178984
7The word Jihad means holy war and get over it [202 words]dhimmi no moreOct 8, 2010 07:01178984
Historical Error. [44 words]aspaciaOct 8, 2010 18:07178984
Duyeling Fatwas [330 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 22:38178984
Dueling Fatwas -Reply to aspacia [176 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 22:51178984
Dueling Fatwas-Reply to kman. [300 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 23:13178984
Dueling Fatwas-Reply to kman. one more time. [136 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 23:25178984
Dueling Fatwas- Reply to the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan [275 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 23:44178984
Dueling Fatwas- Reply to the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan [142 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 23:56178984
Dueling Fatwas-Dhimmi no more. [13 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 8, 2010 23:59178984
Dueling Fatwas-Reply to kman.Umpteenth. [40 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 9, 2010 00:04178984
1Just look how kind and peaceful muslims really are [97 words]James ThomasOct 9, 2010 07:12178984
3Do not blame us kuffar you can only blame your islamic sources [227 words]dhimmi no moreOct 9, 2010 17:17178984
4Genital mutilation and Islam [611 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2010 08:41178984
2You, "Fazal", are the one who claimed Islam was only a peaceful religion ... [26 words]kmanOct 10, 2010 19:05178984
1I have much more than "read a few books" ... [457 words]kmanOct 10, 2010 19:28178984
FGMFGM [104 words]btillyOct 10, 2010 21:57178984
Dueling Fatwas [80 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 11, 2010 00:12178984
Dueling Fatwas -Reply to aspacia [11 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 11, 2010 00:18178984
Dueling Fatwas reply to Kman's last reply [191 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 11, 2010 00:54178984
2paradise lost [1116 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 11, 2010 04:43178984
4the comedian [286 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 11, 2010 05:03178984
2The word Jihad means holy war [60 words]dhimmi no moreOct 11, 2010 06:43178984
3Our dear Fazal and the islamic sources: the message and the messenger [147 words]dhimmi no moreOct 11, 2010 07:03178984
1Fazel [241 words]aspaciaOct 11, 2010 07:16178984
Fazel [24 words]aspaciaOct 11, 2010 07:18178984
7Let us have a deal [285 words]dhimmi no moreOct 11, 2010 08:11178984
1Sure, "Pazal", I'll relax while "taqiyya" covers up the true nature of violent jihad. I haven't made the least bit of "fun" of your virulent religion ... [529 words]kmanOct 11, 2010 16:43178984
1You flatter yourself "Fazal" why still evading the issues. [303 words]kmanOct 11, 2010 20:25178984
Dueling fatwas -reply to kman [494 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 11, 2010 23:52178984
Dueling Fatwas- The Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan [140 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 12, 2010 00:09178984
Dueling Fatwas- The Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan [453 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 12, 2010 01:02178984
Dueling fatwas -reply to Aspacia [65 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 12, 2010 01:09178984
Dueling fatwas -reply to Aspacia [628 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 12, 2010 01:51178984
6Curmally: Islam is a problem and everyone but Muslims knows it [1237 words]PlatoOct 12, 2010 14:03178984
islamic paradise [63 words]btillyOct 12, 2010 18:32178984
Fazai Habib Curmally [1137 words]aspaciaOct 12, 2010 20:16178984
You proved me correct [6 words]aspaciaOct 12, 2010 20:21178984
3Curmally: Do you judge the morals of your prophet by seventh century standards? [339 words]PlatoOct 12, 2010 23:36178984
So, "Fazal", still playing obtuse. I know you don't need proof for yourself, but hope to play to the audience ... [1105 words]kmanOct 12, 2010 23:59178984
Dueling fatwas -reply to kman [300 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 13, 2010 03:52178984
Dueling fatwas -reply to Plato [306 words]Fazal Habib CurmqllyOct 13, 2010 04:15178984
2phantom [1326 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 13, 2010 04:42178984
2But islam is really the religion of the Arabs only [193 words]dhimmi no moreOct 13, 2010 07:29178984
3Om Habiba and Muhammad and female genital mutilation [72 words]dhimmi no moreOct 13, 2010 07:36178984
3FGM is in the hadith! It seems that Muhammad recommended it and performed it! [117 words]dhimmi no moreOct 13, 2010 07:45178984
2I'm sorry for you, "Fazal", that you cannot read critically or objectively ... [276 words]kmanOct 13, 2010 21:06178984
CURMALLY: Murdering critics of the Prophet is sunnah [812 words]PlatoOct 13, 2010 22:04178984
Dueling fatwas -Final Reply to kman. [464 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 13, 2010 23:14178984
Dueling fatwas -Final Reply to Aspacia [14 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 13, 2010 23:18178984
Dueling fatwas -Final Reply to the Grand infidel of kaffiristan [140 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 13, 2010 23:41178984
3The miners in Chile and the victims of the floods and the bombing of the Shi3a and Sufi mosques in Pakistan! [129 words]dhimmi no moreOct 14, 2010 07:30178984
Dueling Fatwas -reply to Plato [663 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 14, 2010 23:21178984
Dueling Fatwas -reply to kman [260 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 14, 2010 23:47178984
Curmally: Mocking beliefs of others is a Muslim speciality [1077 words]PlatoOct 14, 2010 23:50178984
2...believing an illusion to be truth will not help you in the long run. Wake up and smell reality. [795 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 15, 2010 02:45178984
4Our dear Fazal ...Prof Schoeberlein! For the readers read and laugh [312 words]dhimmi no moreOct 15, 2010 06:53178984
2Minorities in Pakistan are well treated! Really? [159 words]dhimmi no moreOct 15, 2010 07:00178984
2Islamic hypocrisy [115 words]dhimmi no moreOct 15, 2010 07:09178984
2Curmally: You claim not to be a thug. But then why do you follow one? [392 words]PlatoOct 15, 2010 08:25178984
1Curmally: The only freedom that has been taken away from Muslins is the freedom to keep slaves [1059 words]PlatoOct 15, 2010 11:10178984
"Fazal", I am quite familiar with CAIR ... [778 words]kmanOct 15, 2010 13:17178984
Sorry, accidentally hit "send" before finished ... [175 words]kmanOct 15, 2010 13:28178984
Dueling Fatwas -reply to kman Final Reply [83 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyfOct 16, 2010 00:26178984
Dueling Fatwas -reply to kman - Re your repy about CAIR [456 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 16, 2010 01:14178984
Dueling Fatwas -reply to The Grand Infidel of kaffiristan [162 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 16, 2010 01:26178984
Dueling Fatwas -Reply to Plato [518 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 16, 2010 02:14178984
You have gathered yourself well, "Fazal". I commend you, now. [853 words]kmanOct 16, 2010 03:19178984
3The Qur'an is a book written in Arabic and you need to read it in Arabic [517 words]dhimmi no moreOct 16, 2010 08:17178984
Victims of islamic imperialism [37 words]dhimmi no moreOct 16, 2010 08:24178984
2CURMALLY: Would an Insan al Kamil keep slaves, marry a six year old or torture and kill for money? [641 words]PlatoOct 16, 2010 12:24178984
1CURMALLY: Accepting Islam is committing cultural hara kiri. [722 words]PlatoOct 16, 2010 12:31178984
2CURMALLY: Islam has to earn respect not have it bludgeoned into us [688 words]PlatoOct 16, 2010 12:42178984
CURMALLY: Which Muslim has the freedom to worship as he wishes? Even a Mughal prince was decapitated for hobnobbing with Hinduism [1349 words]PlatoOct 16, 2010 12:57178984
1More fantasy from no other than Fazal [54 words]dhimmi no moreOct 16, 2010 15:58178984
Hmm, common ground "Fazal" ... [803 words]kmanOct 16, 2010 20:47178984
Dueling Fatwas- reply to Plato [1354 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 17, 2010 02:18178984
Dueling Fatwas- reply to Plato once more [351 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 17, 2010 03:00178984
Dueling Fatwas- reply to Grand kaffir [478 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 17, 2010 03:35178984
1More funny Arabic [280 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2010 07:08178984
1I smell a fatwa! [300 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2010 07:32178984
2ayat al-jizya revisited aka the mafia tax verse! [1134 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2010 08:34178984
1CURMALLY: On who maligns other people's religions and the hate taught in Pakistani schools [3189 words]PlatoOct 17, 2010 11:16178984
1The Armenian Genocide and those who deny it and shame on them [214 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2010 19:51178984
Cherry picking time and you need to stick to urdu our dear Fazal [268 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2010 20:02178984
back to fatwas [736 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 18, 2010 02:50178984
Islamic comedy big time [497 words]dhimmi no moreOct 18, 2010 07:54178984
CURMALLY: Thank you for your clear admission (confession?) that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, that it desecrates idols Part I. And about pulling legs Part II [2112 words]PlatoOct 18, 2010 10:02178984
1CURMALLY: Thank you for your clear admission (confession?) that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, that it desecrates idols Part I. And about pulling legs Part II [2437 words]PlatoOct 18, 2010 10:07178984
1CURMALLY: You seem to switch your identity between Pakistani and Muslim. [1136 words]PlatoOct 19, 2010 09:34178984
to fazal [109 words]pjmOct 19, 2010 10:00178984
to fazal [63 words]pjm6321Oct 19, 2010 10:04178984
Dueling Fatwas- reply to Grand Kaffir [243 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 19, 2010 22:27178984
CURMALLY: And about pulling legs Part II. Addendum [119 words]PlatoOct 20, 2010 00:06178984
Your interpretation sought on 4:34 [137 words]PlatoOct 20, 2010 00:13178984
Dueling Fatwas- reply to Grand kaffir -Final [167 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 20, 2010 00:34178984
Dueling Fatwas- reply to Plato-Final [76 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 20, 2010 00:40178984
3truth needs no defence 2 [628 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 20, 2010 05:39178984
More cherry picking [115 words]dhimmi no moreOct 20, 2010 18:32178984
ayat al-radrb or beating your wife verse and how disgusting [240 words]dhimmi no moreOct 20, 2010 18:49178984
Dueling fatwas [605 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 21, 2010 00:07178984
1once again.... [800 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 21, 2010 04:28178984
and again - once again.... [767 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 21, 2010 05:10178984
CURMALLY: In the motherland of Islam diya for a woman is half a man's. We reform our religions, Muslims refuse unless forced. [4258 words]PlatoOct 23, 2010 00:08178984
1Our dear Fazal and the hadith literature [110 words]dhimmi no moreOct 23, 2010 07:47178984
Q4:34 and beating women [128 words]dhimmi no moreOct 23, 2010 07:59178984
spending their time looking for legal loopholes in islamic law? [597 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 23, 2010 20:42178984
3More Islamic comedy and this time the Hebrew prophets Jesus included were really Arabs! [186 words]dhimmi no moreOct 24, 2010 08:16178984
Dhimmi no more - thanks! [55 words]PlatoOct 24, 2010 12:03178984
1Curmally: Correction [78 words]PlatoOct 24, 2010 21:27178984
Duelling fatwas -Rep;ly to PLATO [825 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyOct 25, 2010 00:32178984
Duelling fatwas -Reply to the Grand Infidel of kaffiristan. [142 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyfOct 25, 2010 00:43178984
2The Quranic stoning verse oh the glorious ayat al-rajm? It was eaten by a hungry goat! This is what the islamic sources tell us [283 words]dhimmi no moreOct 25, 2010 18:18178984
More gems from Fazal [426 words]dhimmi no moreOct 25, 2010 18:34178984
1been to Lebanon? Good for you [694 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 26, 2010 05:57178984
2Brooklyn and the girl! Self hate and other sordid matters [423 words]dhimmi no moreOct 26, 2010 07:04178984
1CURMALLY: The Hanafi law you follow demands death or subjugation of all infidels. You sinned in dining with your Hindu teacher. [2842 words]PlatoOct 26, 2010 23:42178984
in response to [24 words]abdussalamOct 30, 2010 16:57178984
1the meaning is what is important - not ethnicity of the writer. [147 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanNov 1, 2010 04:34178984
Another victim of Arabian and Hijazi imperialism [86 words]dhimmi no moreNov 1, 2010 07:19178984
1abdussalam: Can the language of Allah be understood only by Arabs? [125 words]PlatoNov 1, 2010 21:52178984
Dueling Fatwa - Response to Fazal Habib Crumally [49 words]Gus JacobsDec 26, 2010 16:21178984
Dueling Fatwa - Response to Fazal Habib Curmally [144 words]Fazal Habib CurmallyDec 30, 2010 10:08178984

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