More about the fatwa and the funny istinja'

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Oct 2, 2010 at 08:43

Our dear Abdella writes from the land of al-kuffar in Germany

>i really appreciate that you take your time to translate all well and try to analyse this fatwa!

Any time as we need to learn about the enemy of our civilization and that is islam! You? you are only a victim

>you seem to be an arabic reader (egyptian may be) so probably we can speak about the translation (no body answered about this phrase the the autour changed after my first reaction)

alif shukr bas ana mish masri ana kafir ibn kafir

For the readers I wrote: Thank you but I'm not Egyptian and I'm an infidel the son of an infidel

>so for the a i find your translation very good and correct! and actually yes! it's very clear because it's not really allowed to clean up with bible (i dont know why this idea!)you just began to say some strange things in the A.1! yes torah zabouur and injil was sent to abraham david and issa (jesus) but if you follow the story in the quran you find that quran say that AFTER people changed some things or corrupt or whatever you want! (it's what we say in the islamic tradition, i'm not here to offenbse people but to have a dialog)

Not true and this is from your kutub al-turath al-islami we are told in al-Sira al-nabawiyya' by Ibn Hisham in his redaction of ibn Ishaq's sirat rasul allah that Muhammad asked some jews in Mecca to show him a copy of the Torah and he examined it and then declared that it is really the words of Allah and do you know what this means? It means that the Bible was not corrupted during the life of Muhammad

Now if we examine the Qur'an we find the following:

1. surat al 3mran 2

2. surat al-ma'ida 46

3. surat al-ma'ida 66

It is very clear from these 3 ayat that Torah and the Injiil (read this as the NT) are the words of Allah right our dear Abdella?

Now if we turn to surat al-a3raf 157 you will find blah...blah...blah... yajidunahu maktuban fi al-torah wa al-injill or you will find the name of Muhammad in the Bible which means that Allah is using the Bible as a reference to prove his point so why would he use a corrupted book for reference unless such book is not corrupted now do you get it?

So we have established so far that your Allah says that the Bible is his own words and he even uses both the Torah and the injiil as referencesto prove a point

>your a. 2 is more strangely interpreted! where do you see that in qoran it says that the bible cannot be changed!! it's wrote about qoran! and it's one of the clearest ideas of islam!

Sure your Allah the arab says in surat al-an3am 115 blah....blah....blah la mubadilla li kalimatihi

So let me help you your Allah says that the injiil and the torah are his words and he gives them as references and that no one can change his words

Do you know what this means? It means that the Bible (the Torah and the NT) cannot be corrupted and are not corrupted

So congratualtions our dear Abdella but it seems that your Allah is saying that the Bible is not corrupted

Now this is the A

>ok, the 3 and 4 and 5 dont work any more! but what i understand here is that it's not possible to clean with bible! because jesus is a sacred name, mary, david, god!! names that we find everywhere in the bible!

Sure if you believe that the Bible is corrupted but we have established in the A that the Bible is not corrupted as per your Allah so do you disagree with your Allah?

>in the B part, your are less pertinent in the interpretation! ( plz note that in recurrent that in a fatwa we find a text from other persons or from coran or hadith who have relation with the fatwa and confirm it, here (and it's very important) it's the text of a person who died 400 before)

Sorry but Im having diffiulty in understanding your English can you paraphrase it?

>the word that every body want to translate with respeced (MUHTARAM or MUHTARIM) has in this case the meaning (SACRED).

Well we need to talk about translation: The Iranians that wrote much of kutub al-turath al-Islami faced the problem of translation of the Qur'an and they came up with the great ideas about translations where we can translate

1. Tarjamat al-kilma/lafz

2. Tarjamat al-ma3na or tafseer wa tawdeeh al-jumla

And in the case of muhtaram the proper translation into English that would be a good reflection of tarjamat al-lafz/ma3na and tarjamat al-ma3na should be RESPECTED (see Wortabet dictionary page 319B) as the word sacred reaaly means muqaddas or muharram

>When you say respected you manipulate spirits here and you make them thing that only names of muhammad or allah is respected! but sacred has all the names! mohamma, jesus, david etc.

Hello: the word muhtaram means respected get over it

Wait: you cannot be an Arab right? Unless you flunked in your nahw wa qawa3id al-lugha ar 3arabiyya and why do you write Muhammad when his name in Arabic would be written as Mohamad?

after you add just a smal "and" who dont exist in the arabic version in this phrase( not respected like (books) of philosophy the Torah and the injiil (read this as the NT) science and made corrupted and made of it great name al-istija' is allowed with it. End") who confuse the meaning! all this elements are not 5 diffrent things ( philosophy + torah + injil + made corrupted + there is no great name on it) but it's " (philosophy + torah + injil), that we know corrupted and in the same time dont containg a great name! who change literally the meaning!

No it does not.

>allahu a3lam is a normal phrase! who is very positif! i dont know why you attack it! it more to describe our ignorance and not our stubbornness!

Allahu a3lam means we really do not know and only Allah knows but he Allah that is does not want to share this knowledge with us now do you get it?

>for my bonus of the day : uhm, why god sent jesus with a new religion if the religion before were already perfect?

What does this have to do with the fatwa and why would Allah send the likes of Muhammad? why was he not successful in his other attempts at sending those rusul? and why is Allah that shy and would not talk to you or to me? and why would he send an Arab who was an Arabian warlord and caravan raider anc child molester? any guesses?

>and dont forget that christianism as we know it was decided in the concil of nicea,

So?

>where an emperor (even not a religion person) decided that it will be like this and not like this! corrupted is to understand false some phrases! look at the jehova witness!!! did you read their bible?

And what does this have to do with the fatwa and what does this have to do with the fact that islamic theology is confused and confusing?

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