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a few small problems

Reader comment on item: Islamism 2.0
in response to reader comment: To: the Grand Infidel of Kafiristan (seems to know their role ... :)

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Jan 8, 2010 at 07:39

Mr. Hussain writes:

"All you have highlighted above is the Global nature of trade. The fact remains it was the Western countries who caused the financial problems due to their greed and self interest. "

Bankers of all persuasions and in most developed countries simply created too much credit in the late 1990's and for most of the last decade. It was a house of cards waiting for a correcion. We had one. Economies are cyclic - there's no massive conspiracy.

"As for the Muslim countries not producing any goods and having poor infrastructure those in charge of the Muslim countries Karzai, Al Maliki, Zardadri, etc are all doing as they are told by their Western masters. "

OK - let's venture farther afield - Turkey, Egypt, Morocco, Indonesia, Pakistan, Sudan, Yemen, Lebanon - hardly any sentiment in those countries towards these imaginary 'western masters'. yet all these countries have woeful economies.

"...Its more the fact that these countries are kept dependent on the West and not allowed to develop and prosper. "

that's right - , the typical ploy - blame it all on the big bad west - even those countries I've just mentioned (and there are several others). How about for once admitting there might be a common thread through all these societies that promotes this lack. Is introspection impossble because they are already perfect?

"Look at the relations between the US and China. If every nation was happy to see another nation prosper the US will be glad to see China grow and overtake her economically and soon militarily which will lead to political dominance in the world.
"

China despite its large coventional army - doesn't have a pot to pee in when compared to US military might despite what you might like to think.

"You are naive to think Western governments want whats best for other countries at the detriment to their own interests.."
telling me what I think now.... how absurd. Of course countries work for their own self-interest. Some like the Chinese you mentioned have a more highly developed sense of self interest than others.

That's because of the exponential population growth rates of humans . And also because of technological improvements. One A bomb can wipe out 120,000 people and a huge amount of property much faster than 100,000 swordsman on horses. Also, Communism has wiped out more people worldwide than the 2 European World Wars. And do not forget that the Japanese in 1941 were NOT a Western power. Had they not been so stupid as to provoke the US into a Pacific War - the death toll for WW2 would have been much lower.

"..Proportianality is not the point.."

I say it is - and why is it not the point - you were the one who brought quantity into it? If Arab invasions killed lets say 1/5 of the world's population in the 8th century throiugh the invaswion of Nth Africa and tghe Middle east - is that any better than 20 million people being killed in WW2 - - 1% of the world's population?? Which would have had a greater effect?

"More wars have been fought by Western nations then any of the previous nations. "

You're pulling 'facts' out of the air now. What constitutes a war? are you including the constant skirmishes civilisations had inSouth America in the last 1500+ years?

If you're going to break it down into including feuding nation-states in the Middle Ages - then that is possible - but define your terms -

"The development of technology giving rise to greater death and destruction is irrelevant too. Its more about using them. "

??? You have to develop them to use them - what is your point? Technology has given human beings greater power for more destruction with less effort spent.

"The West had no problem with using chemical weapons ie mustard gas by Churchill WW1 against Iraq, "

And when was mustard gas banned - and by whom?? yet who used it against Kurds inthe 1980's - a muslimguy wasn't it?

"Atom Bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, depleted uranium during the Gulf Wars, etc"

The atom bomb stopped another million Japanese - from dying senselessly - they were prepared to die for their Emperor - fighting to the last man and last bullet (and with no hope of 72 virgins either) .

"""Garbage. Iran is full of people who resent the loss of their great civilisation to the scourge of Islam.

"Rubbish... what Iran wants is to be left alone by the West."

yes , more garbage, the rabid imams and ayatollahs atthe top would love Iran to be shut off from the rest of the world so they can continue with their shuttered and blinkered existence. The younger people there have had a gutful. Why do you think their original religion - Zoroastrianism - is on the rise there??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiXdQQy47uI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCs3EMPU3nk&feature=related


If you are genuinely proud to be following a pedophile - how can anybody argue against you?

Does not deserve a reply. This is just ignorance.

So - your reply was that you think it is somehow ignorance that I or anyone else doesn't accept that behaviour from your perfect man - or any body else for that matter? . The 53 year old Mo never slept with a 9 year old girl - before she became 10, 11, 12... ? Anthropology is an amazing subject. If you study it - you'll be fascinated at a human being's capacity for self-deception. You having your little demi-god is fine - but it's truly pathetic when you try and make excuses for worse than poor behaviour by third parties (or your own) to people who have no such ideology - or anything approaching it.

Then why are so many, many Muslims sacrificing their 'independence' -- seeking to become part of the fold in those same Western countries????

"It is simple. If Muslim countries were left alone and were allowed to prosper then you wouldn't have them coming over to the Western countries. "

They seem unable to prosper - even given the hundreds of billions they've received in oil revenues since the 1950's. I think you'll have to look a little deeper - find the common thread.

However, there are more and more Muslims like myself who have been born and grew up in West. We work and pay our taxes and are law abiding citizens.

Good for you - but you get no medals - just like the rest of us.

"....So it is not that I as well as many others came over."

You personally may not have - but it as as though many, many others have. No need to lie. That is just a fact.

"...At the same time, there are plenty of Muslims who come over as tourists and go back."

Arab sheiks living the high life - fast horses and faster women etc?

"In addition to this there are those who just leave anyway. "

It is absurd to suggest that the numbers leaving are anywhere near the nubers arriving. I hope you're not doing that.

"I experienced all of these kinds of people so it is not true to believe that Muslims are forsaking their own lands to come over to the West."

Indeed they are. But of course not ALL of them. Did I ever say that ALL muslims were leaving their lands to come to the west?

".....Just like it was not true to believe all Eastern Europeans were flooding the UK and were here to stay. By and large the majority have gone back and that is why we do not see as many sensationalist headlines."

You made the mistake again of saying I was sugesting something I simply was not suggesting. Would any sane person believe that ALL Eastern Europeans were flooding into the UK?

You mean fifth column Muslim hypocrites who live in Western lands and want them to be destroyed so they can live out some glorious muslim myth?

"Hypocrites... how many expatriates do we have of Westerners living in non- Western countries?"

Way less than Muslims living in western countries - who were not born there.

"Are they considered a Fifth Coloumn too."

No - and the reason being as you well know - is that they have no unifyin ideology where they see people who do not hold the same beleifs as them as somehow not desrving to live,

You could ask - do they live on social security of their host nations for 20 years andf then pay them back with the kindness of plotting to blow up dams and electricity centres and create misery and mayhem for their hosts?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051107/australia_terrorism_051107/20051107?hub=CTVNewsAt11

"If you Muslims want to see the West destroyed and take over the lands you have been reading to many tabloids. "

some of those higher up in your cult than yourself - certainly do.

Perhaps you'd care to explain the behaviour of your bddies eaturedin these clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-i5R3UYgn8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-4m6Mow8c4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E4rMJVHyeg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiU-Vaq6PRg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXML1nPmglo&feature=related

Now of course you can say the rabid Choudhary's beliefs are unrepresentative of your personal views - but he does coleasce the views of a lot of British muslims ( notice - I did not say ALL.)

"The crux of the discussion is that Muslim countries should be left alone just as the Western countries want to not be threatened by the Muslims."

We can agree on that. Then the question becomes - what do YOU muslims do with your Choudhary's etc?

Submitting....

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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