Our dear Salah and the bogus Quranic context
Reader comment on item: A Call for American Boldness in Iran
in response to reader comment: Out of Sight, out of mind!

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 2, 2009 at 08:12

Our dear Salah who lives in the safety and security of Denmark but who has no regard for the religion or the culture or the freedoms of Denmark and of the people of Denmark and who should be sent back to where he came from

>You are welcome to post comments. It fills my time with useful discussion and may as well remove

Really? your answers are no more than cliches that we here from jihadis (this is what you called yourself right?) like you

>illusions and misunderstanding inside our minds as well as in the body of knowledge we have had till this moment. I have read the verses you quoted. Unfortunately, they are cut out of their context.

Oh the Pakistani topos of "the context" right?

>Every example you have provided has its interprtation, historical reference, and context. To take out sentence (in this case verses) out of their context is incorrect both logically and epistimologically. Both Arabic and the Qur'an are context-bound, i.e. context is important to understand the message.

Really? the Qur'an a book that you cannot read in Arabic is in the words of Peters "text with no context." We have no idea what the Qur'an really says and you know what? early on Muslims realized that the Qur'an does not make any sense and the 3ulama trying in various and contradictory ways to explain this opaque revelation and this is why we have the much celebrated saying:

al-tafseer lel sahaba wa al-ta'weel lel fuqaha/3ulama

Oh the transliterated Arabic? well you know by now that I do not translate Arabic for wannabe arabs like you

Do you know what this means? Let me help you: It means that because we do not have any books of tafseer from Muhammad's sahaba then we are left with the fuqaha and 3ulama and it is only allahu a3lam or in other words no one has a clue what the Qur'an really says so your Pakistani context thing is bogus and here are three examples

1. Surat quraish: no one has a clue what this opaque sura is all about but it did not even stop the 3ulma from guessing what it says and if you want to read a review of the tafseer of such sura then read it in Crone's "Meccan Trade" and if the 3ulama had no clue back then what this very sura really says then your bogus context is no more than an excuse to tell us "oh it is all about the context."

And here is your bonus for today: what does the word ilaf is surat Quraish mean? Let me help you: no one has a clue so how come no one ahs a clue?

2. I challenge you to reconstruct the life of Muhammad by reading the Qur'an only. You will not be able and if the 3Ulama had no clue and made things up about surat Quraish then why should we believe their context or their bogus claims about reconstructing the life of Muhammad from the Qur'an? you tell me ya ayuha al-falyasoof al-kabeer?

3. In surat al-tahreem we are told that there was a mariyya al-qibtiyya (but you will not find here name in the sura right?) and Muhammad had sex with her and there was a little drama in his abode by his other wives et voila we have surat al-tahreem. But you know what? Ibn Kathir tells us that the real story is: Muhammad ate some bad 3sal nahl and he had bad breath (what a joke) and this is the cause of the drama in his little abode. So which one is it? Mariyya al-qibtiyya or is it 3asal nahl? Do you know what this very example means? It means we have no idea about the so called "context" of the Qur'an and your claim is bogus

Oh I forgot to mention so the 3ulama had to come up with a way to explain what they are really saying and not what the Qur'an is really saying (because no one had a clue what the Qur'an is really saying) so they came up with what they call asbab al-nuzul or the reasons for revelations or what Pakistanis the likes of our dear Salah call "the context."! Well if the tafseer is bogus then sabab al-nuzul (singular) can be just as bogus

So much for the Quranic context

>unlike English where what you want to say is there in language, i. e. Language in English equals thought.

And so in Arabic mr demagogue

>Moreover, Arabic is highly metaphoric.

Really? could you give examples in Arabic?

>Take the dog simile for example...All animal metaphors are used in the Qur'an to bring to the hearers a thought. A dog as we all know pants and lolls its tongue whether it is quiet or active, and the reference is both general and specific: General in comparing the unbelievers who choose to stick to earth as a representative of chthonic creatures as snakes and reptiles and mundane desire to a dog in contrast to heavenly will that is elevated above primitivism and darkness.

gobbeldygook

>Specific, the reference is not definite

Then why does the Qur'an claims to be a kitab mubeen mr demagogue?

>but some say it is to some Oldtestament figure who betrayed Joshua, some say it is to Ummiya ibn Abi As-Salt

ROTFL Pakistani Arabic Oh the al al-ta3reef again and you cannot be an Arab and it is al-salt but who on earth is al-salt?

>who believed in Hannafi creed but was hesitant to convert to Islam.

More gobbeldygook

>There is also, the case of translation: Much of the meaning of the Qur'an is not clear in translations.

Bogus. The Qur'an is not really a difficult book to translate and your Arab masters developed what came to be called tarjamat al-lafz/kilma and tarjamat al-ma3na and you can provide me with the aya of your choice and I will be glad to show you how it works

>I usually combine M. M. Pickthall with Yousef Ali and Sale to bring an idea clear to non-Arab Moslems.

Really? I thought that you know Arabic and that you have a degree and a "desertation" in translation from Arabic to English or did you already forget? or could it be becuase you use translations becuase you really do not know any Arabic?

Oh Yusuf Ali's translation is a poor translation. How come you did not know that? and who is really stupid enough to listen to a tablighee like you pretending to know what the Qur'an is really saying?

>There is also the King Fahd standard translation.

Another tendentious translation. But if you are from al-Mosul as you claimed then you should have been aware of Dawood's translation whose mother tongue was Iraqi Arabic

>My point is that it is both objective and logical to consult context.

Oh darn it the Pakistani context again

> I really feel sad that my Western colleagues misunderstand much of the Qur'an and take verses out of context to criticise Moslems and Moslem societies. But tell me are quarter of mankind all ignorant or not discerning in embracing Islam.

Then you tell us what the Qur'an really says and let us start with ayat al-sayf

>Why you install hatred and difference through ignorance of the cultural other.

But your Allah "installs hatred and difference through ignorance of the culturla others" right mr demagogue? he divides humanity into dar al-salam/islam and dar al-harb right? and he calls the Jews khanazeer wa qurud and the Christains al-daaleen and he tells you as per ayat al-sayf to go out and kill al- mushrikeen and I include here the Jews and Chritstians (as per Q9:30) and the Hindus and Buddhists and Zoroastrians so you need to know about what the Qur'an says before you come here and lecture us

You? you have no regard for the religion or the culture or the freedoms of the people of Denmark and what a munafiq

> We cannnot reach a common ground if we leave dialogue and discussion.

Hello: we do not have any common grounds with your likes and you only get ridicule do you get it?

> The strength and validity of Islam is in its ethics which have been made our family ethics.

goobeldygook

>It is sheer injustice to take the exception for the rule. The mahority od Moslems are peace loving people.

No wrong the majority of Muslims do not really know what the Qur'an really says and they do not know what is written in kutub al-turath al-islami and I can assure you if education is better in the Arab world and reason is used as a tool of critical education islam will be a thing of the past

>We are not Khaligi sheikhs all of us and we are not Wahabbis like some who interpret Islam as a religion of the sword only.

Oh I thought you told me that there is no ayat al-sayf in islam remember mr demagogue?

>It is a religion of cleanliness and integrity.

really? do you ever comare the clean Denmark with the likes of Pakistan? and how did Muhammad do his cleaning of his rear end in Mecca? Oh then next time when you drink the water of zamzam think again

And what is more tragic is that using for example the water of the Nile by Muslims to clean their rear ends is a major cause of the spead of the likes of Bilharzia is Egypt

So much for the idea of clean in islam

>We believe in the principle of word and we do not betray friendship. It is also wrong to confound Arab-Moslems with Persians and Turks as some orientalists who imaged Islam as a religion of desire for the young.

"the desire for the young" right? Buy your so called prophet married a 6 year old whn he was 53 year old dirty old man right?and he liked to stain his gray hair with henna so he would look younfg right?

>I see your internet : There are some ten thousands sites on sex and pornography which leaves no margin for men and women dignity. Man is reduced to a sexual machine, woman (young and old) into prostitutes.

No one tells you that you must watch or not watch this but I bet you that you did watch some porn so did it turn you on our dear Salah the demagogue? and how about pornography in Lahore and there is plenty of it and are you aware that shoppoing centers in Saudi Arabia are meeting places for sex? and are you aware that very sexy Turkish soaps are very popular in the Middle East?what a munafiq

>But, can't you see I am wrong if I generalize this on the West. Of course, there are Universities, Churches and Justice in the West.

But you do not like them right?

>The light of Christianity shone from the East on Europe creating cathedrals and the name of God is highly placed.

Oh I thought that you told us that Christianity is a false religion so what changed?Oh let me see al-taqiyya right?

>So why as the Holy Qur'an says: let's come to a common meeting ground of understanding..

Oh let me see this was abrogated by ayat al-sayf right?

>We can exchange views, leave pride and seek friendship.

I can only speak for myself: you ain't no friend ...

>If justice is the principle sought by all religion, then justice is a common ground. But i end my comment by insisting on you not to strip verses out of their contexts.. We are not going to fight or displace one another as the Jews now displacing the Palestinians. both the USA and Israel have created hatred and violence and it is by noving away from the golden rule of hustice.It is a common sense indeed to talk and discuss everything and I invite you to straightforward and brave dialogue..on everything..

What a fake

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.