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Difficulty of expulsion of Islamic microstates
Reader comment on item: Muslim Autonomous Zones in the West?

Submitted by Archimedes2 (Canada), Jan 18, 2009 at 18:29

While your comment (2), Mr. Pipes, seems a very sensible adjustment of Mr. Slater's analysis, I suspect it doesn't stand the test of reality. The current Israel-Gaza, although not EXACTLY an attempt to expel a microstate, has enough elements of this hypothetical possibility to illustrate -- accurately, I proffer -- a major flaw in the notion that microstates might arise and later be expelled, more or less cleanly, by surrounding nations that find them an intolerable guest.

To a 21st century Islamist there are no truly Islamic states, only the Ummah. Those pushing for the establishment of "Islamic autonomous zones" throughout the West do not regard such as independent states, but as part of the larger Dar al Islam. Apparently so do vast numbers, perhaps a majority, of the 1.6 billion or so muslims worldwide. Once a region becomes an exclusively "islamic" possession, it is universally regarded in Islamic terms as "waqf", or a permanent possession of the religion. This is why such tenacity in the Islamic world to the notion that Israel is an illegitimate state (as all of its soil was once part of an Islamic Caliphate) and why, hundreds of years after its loss to them, Muslims worldwide still speak passionately about the reconquest of "Andalusia" (modern day Spain): Once it is seen as Dar al Islam, a piece of property changes forever in Islamic eyes.

See the fallout of this reality in Gaza. Israel strikes Hamas, "violating" Islamic territory and what happens worldwide? Muslims take to the streets. The Ummah is mobilized and acts more-or-less in unison. Attack a tiny terrorist enclave in a tiny corner, and suddenly the "war" is taken world-wide -- there is no "Gaza", insofar as being a separate state; it is only a local realization of the Islamist dream of an outbreak of Dar al Islam worldwide. Israel is not attacking an isolated "microstate": when you strike Hamas in Gaza it is (in muslim eyes) an act of war on the larger, worldwide "Islamic State".

The reaction precipitated by today's events in Gaza only illustrate how far along this path the Ummah, on the whole, believes it has now come. Imagine a world that is 10 or 20 years more islamized, and an Ummah far more confident than today in asserting its presence as an emergent worldwide force.

Then imagine France (for example) asserting itself, in such a world, upon a 25 square kilometer "Urban Sensitive Zone", flexing its military muscle and saying "Enough is enough -- you cannot behave in barbarous ways on French soil; dismantle the sharia state, open the borders and conform to French law!" I don't think I need to fill in the details -- the consequences would be explosive worldwide. Now imagine France trying to repatriate 955 Urban Sensitive Zones. You begin to see the problem...


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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Reader comments (63) on this item

Title By Date
Democratic peaceful counter-attack [530 words]DEMSCIFeb 15, 2009 03:14
Micro-states for democracy [206 words]DEMSCIFeb 14, 2009 09:21
But where will they get jobs? [123 words]Farid H.Jan 30, 2009 20:36
Several Pakistans in Making [266 words]B N GururajJan 27, 2009 05:01
Poll: Should Muslims living in a non-Muslim country integrate into host society? [13 words]Muslims Against ShariaJan 25, 2009 23:42
Please see this video that was on channel 4 in uk [80 words]ValJan 23, 2009 17:28
If it worked for the Huguenots it must be a good idea [17 words]Randy McDonaldJan 22, 2009 14:40
Muslim microstates [18 words]RichardJan 22, 2009 10:32
A Humanist World Free From Religion [185 words]RobinozJan 22, 2009 05:57
What hubris! [255 words]Fay VoshellJan 25, 2009 10:58
You're Upset Understood [190 words]RobinJan 26, 2009 18:19
Hitler and Christianity [201 words]Fay VoshellJan 28, 2009 12:14
Religion Manmade [376 words]RobinJan 28, 2009 19:00
Muslim's perseverence & European Innovations [62 words]AhmedJan 22, 2009 04:06
Do you know? [129 words]adilJan 21, 2009 09:38
Europe may hold their own in the future! [218 words]Ms. AnneJan 20, 2009 07:24
possible outcomes [271 words]logical thinkerJan 19, 2009 19:00
bottom line for the U.S.A. [133 words]joel carsonJan 19, 2009 16:08
⇒ Difficulty of expulsion of Islamic microstates [470 words]Archimedes2Jan 18, 2009 18:29
Muslim Conversion?
[w/response] [231 words]
Gilbert ManeJan 18, 2009 01:47
Interesting observation, Gilbert [222 words]Archimedes2Jan 19, 2009 18:08
Converts to Islam Also [144 words]RobinozJan 27, 2009 18:07
moslem conversion [186 words]rwFeb 9, 2009 01:03
mass madness [39 words]ValJan 17, 2009 14:51
Chris Slater's option, a stepping stone [86 words]Lynne SchultzJan 15, 2009 22:29
A culture like Europe's is at risk any way you look at it. [144 words]GWKJan 15, 2009 12:21
Muslim microstates = Additional Muslim votes at the UN. [71 words]M.D'SouzaJan 15, 2009 10:51
"Expulsion of Muslims"? We can't even expel the terrorist, Mahmoud Mohammad Issa Mohammad [49 words]KristaJan 15, 2009 09:33
Possible but not likely [90 words]Robert FriedmannJan 15, 2009 05:58
Islamist "intentions" have never been under any doubt.. [9 words]kmanJan 18, 2009 18:50
The more likely unmentioned alternative [82 words]DavidJan 15, 2009 03:17
RE=MUSLIM EURO-STATES SOONER THAN YOU THINK [95 words]TerryJan 15, 2009 02:23
Will the West surrender? [257 words]SusanJan 14, 2009 23:59
Muslim Autonomous Zones in Europe. [233 words]PrakashJan 14, 2009 23:00
The nose [12 words]Steve MerkelJan 14, 2009 22:36
'Autonomous Muslim? [226 words]Ulysses BlackJan 14, 2009 19:08
Slater, Autonomous Zones, and Israel [588 words]Lowell BlackmanJan 14, 2009 17:12
Chris Slater's comments [104 words]Ron IrvineJan 14, 2009 15:30
The never-ending Muslim Empire ?? [51 words]Rich from TampaJan 14, 2009 14:33
Shariat in Action! (Warning! Not for the weakhearted.) [40 words]TurkJan 14, 2009 14:10
Turk's not for the faint hearted [263 words]w. June PedigoJan 15, 2009 12:35
One more possibility [110 words]Hans GesundJan 14, 2009 14:00
slater is making a good point [292 words]Betsy RossJan 14, 2009 13:21
Harmonious [64 words]PhillipJan 14, 2009 11:42
autonomous zones, as in the W.Bank or Gaza? [107 words]wynneJan 14, 2009 11:38
A fifth outcome scenario [144 words]huckJan 14, 2009 08:45
There is a Precedent for the Islamic CityStates [334 words]NehamaJan 14, 2009 08:44
Excellent idea! [107 words]PDMJan 14, 2009 05:27
Partially agreeing with Chris Slatter and totally with Dr. Pipes: Muslim autonomous zones as a mid step towards expulsion of Muslims or a Muslim takeover. [143 words]YnnatchkahJan 14, 2009 02:45
Response to Slater [145 words]joeJan 13, 2009 15:03
Autonomous zones - Gaza is one [169 words]SkepticJan 13, 2009 08:53
Palestinian Christians [26 words]Joseph AdamsJan 14, 2009 18:11
Resulting primarily from the inhumane acts of Hamas - Lebanon is another "autonomous zone"... [478 words]SkepticJan 16, 2009 13:00
Entirely bad idea [195 words]suitepotatoJan 12, 2009 14:03
Entirely possible [196 words]samJan 13, 2009 14:42
It's not that it must be the law of the land in absolute [327 words]suitepotatoJan 13, 2009 22:44
A ghetto by any other name... [191 words]Fay VoshellJan 12, 2009 12:26
Very interesting perspective, Fay Voshell [170 words]jennifer solisJan 15, 2009 16:16
Re-thinking secularism [459 words]Fay VoshellJan 16, 2009 09:56
Monolith against monolith [467 words]Fay VoshellJan 16, 2009 14:58
Makes no sense [82 words]Sean SilverJan 12, 2009 11:51
kick them out [10 words]taniaJan 16, 2009 04:25
Australia Needs to Kick Them Out [171 words]RobinozJan 22, 2009 06:13

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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