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Attributes an Agenda:Response toTovey

Reader comment on item: Appease Iran?
in response to reader comment: Clarification of Attributes

Submitted by Nura (United States), Oct 19, 2008 at 02:15

It's amazing that those who study the Bible cling to the words of it's translation as if the English represent the exact meaning of the word. Just like the "Holy Ghost" The son was used for many people in the Bible! Despite this common error, I have no trouble believing that Jesus was prophesized in the Old Testament. This is nothing knew.

Isiah 10

10Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, 11"Aska sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his nameImmanuel.15He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will bedeserted. 17 The LORD will bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father's house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria."

Jesus is called the son of whom? It has been interpreted that he was called the "son of David" and the "son of man"

Mark

38Forwhoever is ashamed of me and of my words in thisadulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."

It is also argued that Jesus was not the son of David. I have actually heard this argument quite a few times. From a Jewish perspective he isn't because he is not of the blood line of David, more like an adopted line through his stepfather. I have heard that this prophecy pertains to Moses. As Muslims, we must believe that Jesus is the prophesied messiah that was mentioned in the Torah. I don't trust the Bible enough to specifically say that he is the one referred to as the son of David for both sides, Jews and Christians, have had agendas in proving that he was either not the Messiah, or was the Messiah. It is noteworthy that there is an argument that Jews referred to all their Prophets as Messiah. In short, Jews did not believe that Jesus is Immanuel.

By agenda, I mean that Christians are so desperate at trying to rectify their dogmatic view of the trinity with the Old Testament, that there are attempts to re-interpret prior versus to support their claim. The Bible is clearly contradictory in it's attributes of Jesus. Mark, Luke, John, and Mathew, attempted to interpret prior versus of the Old Testament to validate Jesus' claim to the throne. When referring to the Old Testament, Jesus is interpreted as the son of man and David; however, the New Testament implies that he in the divine son of God. This great leap is unique to the Abrahamic faith. The only time you will see a divine son of God is when the Jews were influenced by the Babylonians and worshiped Baal. Why is this not a clue that something is wrong with the doctrine of the trinity? I will never understand how intelligent beings can believe such a thing.

I will offer an answer for considerartion. Corruption! As the Jews were influenced by the Babylonians, early Christians were influenced by the Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, and Greeks. It was in fact a pagan king who "converted" to Christianity who sealed this doctrine. Anyone who did not agree with the doctrine was killed making it one of the greatest scandals in History.

Why is this explanation is not a possibility in the mind of Christians I will never understand! It's Clear!

*Return to the Unitarian view of God that is the heritage of Christianity before it was corrupted.

Few sources on Jesus in Islam….

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol 7)

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel (Fateh-ul Bari page 304 and 305 Vol 7)

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I am the nearest of all the people to the son of Mary, and all the prophets are paternal brothers, and there has been no prophet between me and him (i.e. Jesus)."

Anti-Christ

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet mentioned the Massiah Ad-Dajjal in front of the people saying, Allah is not one eyed while Messsiah, Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape. While sleeping near the Ka'ba last night, I saw in my dream a man of brown color the best one can see amongst brown color and his hair was long that it fell between his shoulders. His hair was lank and water was dribbling from his head and he was placing his hands on the shoulders of two men while circumambulating the Kaba. I asked, 'Who is this?' They replied, 'This is Jesus, son of Mary.' Behind him I saw a man who had very curly hair and was blind in the right eye, resembling Ibn Qatan (i.e. an infidel) in appearance. He was placing his hands on the shoulders of a person while performing Tawaf around the Ka'ba. I asked, 'Who is this? 'They replied, 'The Masih, Ad-Dajjal.' "

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "I met Moses on the night of my Ascension to heaven." The Prophet then described him saying, as I think, "He was a tall person with lank hair as if he belonged to the people of the tribe of Shanu's.' The Prophet further said, "I met Jesus." The Prophet described him saying, "He was one of moderate height and was red-faced as if he had just come out of a bathroom. I saw Abraham whom I resembled more than any of his children did." The Prophet further said, "(That night) I was given two cups; one full of milk and the other full of wine. I was asked to take either of them which I liked, and I took the milk and drank it. On that it was said to me, 'You have taken the right path (religion). If you had taken the wine, your (Muslim) nation would have gone astray."

A word indeed…

Narrated 'Ubada:

The Prophet said, "If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Slave and His Apostle, and that Jesus is Allah's Slave and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few." (Junada, the sub-narrator said, " 'Ubada added, 'Such a person can enter Paradise through any of its eight gates he likes.")

Mary….

Narrated 'Ali:

I heard the Prophet saying, "Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, was the best among the women (of the world of her time) and Khadija is the best amongst the women. (of this nation)."

A Prayer for the decedents of Mary!

Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab:

Abu Huraira said, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'There is none born among the off-spring of Adam, but Satan touches it. A child therefore, cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of Satan, except Mary and her child." Then Abu Huraira recited: "And I seek refuge with You for her and for her offspring from the outcast Satan" (3.36)

Submitting....

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Reader comments (168) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Obama's Foreign Policy: Dangerous Game of Appeasement [18 words]Behshad HastibakhshNov 21, 2009 15:10164855
apeeasement at whose expense [126 words]Y Brandstetter MDMay 14, 2009 01:04155393
Comment [74 words]JohnNov 8, 2008 01:05142412
Israel must rely on it's Jewish population and World Jewry [377 words]Joe HamiltonOct 25, 2008 23:49141015
Maybe- But Eventually Israel Will Come To Rely on Her LORD. [313 words]M. ToveyNov 3, 2008 13:46141015
Nothing in the article about Iran [134 words]michaelOct 23, 2008 16:57140804
Army Strong [616 words]ZentristOct 22, 2008 20:40140714
2Appeasing who, Iran.why? [364 words]Stephen MargolisOct 22, 2008 18:24140707
Appeasement will work for PRESIDENT OBAMA ! ! ! , LOL [70 words]Phil GreendOct 21, 2008 21:10140643
Iran Cannot Appease the LORD Almighty God of Israel. [428 words]M. ToveyOct 20, 2008 19:50140551
None can claim victory but God [558 words]sTsOct 29, 2008 12:23140551
Thirteen Years Later - Is Iranian Islamic Republic Appeased? [189 words]M ToveyJul 29, 2021 16:48140551
Appeasement in the Face of Increased Hostilities [243 words]M ToveyJul 31, 2021 18:22140551
Partial Answer - Reinforcement of Notion that Islamic Resurgence is No Longer Muted Threat [89 words]M ToveyAug 24, 2021 17:59140551
1A religion in Islam does not exist [456 words]PrashantSep 11, 2021 11:23140551
Capitalism/ Bushism failed - Iran won [207 words]NishiOct 18, 2008 09:07140397
nishi [68 words]btillyOct 19, 2008 02:40140397
Mohammedanism misinterpreted in 1784 [185 words]PDMOct 14, 2008 18:56140183
The shores of Tripoli... [108 words]donvanOct 21, 2008 12:10140183
Ronald Reagan on appeasement [41 words]PDMOct 8, 2008 02:51139718
Appeasement works [10 words]SchimpffOct 6, 2008 00:22139596
when was that ... perhaps I was asleep ... [24 words]OliverOct 21, 2008 14:58139596
Prominent Muslims: Why Do They Hate Us? [383 words]PDMOct 1, 2008 21:37139444
PDM, why Muslims hate us [134 words]InfidelOct 4, 2008 17:30139444
Mohammedanism means PIECE! [31 words]PDMOct 7, 2008 00:13139444
probably a good idea to get facts straight... [49 words]TajOct 7, 2008 18:53139444
Taj, are these facts or fiction [172 words]InfidelOct 8, 2008 17:04139444
to elucidate... [528 words]TajOct 10, 2008 16:49139444
Not true [142 words]NuraOct 11, 2008 18:55139444
Nura and Taj, out of context [209 words]InfidelOct 12, 2008 01:44139444
APPEASE IRAN-NURA [87 words]btilly`Oct 12, 2008 07:29139444
Our dear Nura is back and more drivel [555 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2008 09:00139444
Paganism and Muslims [146 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2008 09:09139444
Oh I forgot to ask our dear Nura [66 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2008 16:07139444
Our dear Taj and sometimes it is better not to "elucidate" [1376 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2008 17:31139444
"context" [91 words]TajOct 13, 2008 05:52139444
Our dear Taj and al-wali wa al-mawali and the Quranic word awliya' [399 words]dhimmi no moreOct 13, 2008 08:21139444
Why would you care? [83 words]NuraOct 13, 2008 11:57139444
Ungrateful servants of Allah: Your only a rebel in his kingdom! [424 words]NuraOct 13, 2008 15:47139444
Taj, understanding the Qur'an [85 words]InfidelOct 13, 2008 19:55139444
1Paganism and Muslims and the saga continues [275 words]dhimmi no moreOct 14, 2008 07:07139444
Our dear Nura and Allah's multiple names or aqaneem [316 words]dhimmi no moreOct 14, 2008 07:38139444
The context again and tafseer v. ta'weel [423 words]dhimmi no moreOct 14, 2008 07:59139444
just a little more, infidel... [132 words]TajOct 14, 2008 16:05139444
4Aramaic is not Arabic LOL, [852 words]NuraOct 14, 2008 17:26139444
nura [13 words]btillyOct 14, 2008 17:46139444
1Taj, the world belongs to Allah and his apostle [176 words]InfidelOct 14, 2008 18:49139444
Our dear Taj and hot air [334 words]dhimmi no moreOct 15, 2008 07:01139444
Waste of time.. [81 words]donvanOct 15, 2008 13:56139444
waste of time redux [54 words]TajOct 15, 2008 17:58139444
another lesson in context... [228 words]TajOct 15, 2008 18:32139444
to miss dhimmi no more what ever that means [118 words]Hamid IsmatOct 16, 2008 13:12139444
Clarification of Attributes [222 words]M. ToveyOct 16, 2008 17:16139444
More from our dear Nura and Islamic paganism and the saga continues [1340 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2008 08:20139444
Our dear Hamid another victim of arabic imperialism [46 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2008 08:24139444
2Isaiah book and Pope Paul II [123 words]sTsOct 17, 2008 10:08139444
Correction : Pope Paul VI [15 words]stsOct 17, 2008 15:27139444
some of Muhammad prophecies [142 words]stsOct 17, 2008 15:44139444
Our dear Hamid and islam is really the religion of the arabs only [377 words]dhimmi no moreOct 18, 2008 09:22139444
But it seems that he has a family [92 words]dhimmi no moreOct 18, 2008 11:44139444
And speaking of names [85 words]dhimmi no moreOct 18, 2008 11:51139444
Oh you forgot one of the attributes of Allah [28 words]dhimmi no moreOct 18, 2008 11:55139444
sts, prophecies from Islam [47 words]InfidelOct 19, 2008 01:39139444
Attributes an Agenda:Response toTovey [1471 words]NuraOct 19, 2008 02:15139444
No doubt.. [204 words]donvanOct 20, 2008 08:30139444
Truth in Faith - Isaiah Points to Yeshua HaMashiach as LORD [183 words]M. ToveyOct 20, 2008 12:16139444
Correction Noted - Previous Response Still the Same - Yeshua HaMashiach Still LORD [7 words]M. ToveyOct 20, 2008 12:19139444
Satisfaction in the Fulfillment of Holy Bible According to the Word of Yeshua HaMashiach [47 words]M. ToveyOct 20, 2008 12:23139444
Here are the references for the prophecies [857 words]sTsOct 20, 2008 13:55139444
There is No Desperation in the Hope on the Holy One of Israel - Yeshua HaMashiach - The Son of David, Son of Man.. [619 words]M. ToveyOct 20, 2008 18:15139444
Our dear Nura I'm still waiting for answers! [166 words]dhimmi no moreOct 21, 2008 07:39139444
NURA [41 words]btillyOct 21, 2008 15:21139444
Taj: Do the hadith trump the Koran? [401 words]PlatoOct 22, 2008 02:12139444
Biting the hand that Feeds you [449 words]ArianaOct 22, 2008 06:44139444
Our dear samer and "fortelling" the future and a taste of his own medicine revisited one more time [128 words]dhimmi no moreOct 22, 2008 07:48139444
RE: M Tovey [4129 words]NuraOct 24, 2008 19:38139444
continue to wait [170 words]NuraOct 24, 2008 20:19139444
:Re Btily [32 words]NuraOct 24, 2008 20:26139444
Nura 101 [1048 words]dhimmi no moreOct 26, 2008 08:31139444
Our dear Nura and Allah al-makkar [77 words]dhimmi no moreOct 26, 2008 08:36139444
Cherry picking time and Nura: it seems that Allah has no difficulty with the Trinity as defined Christians [181 words]dhimmi no moreOct 26, 2008 08:48139444
Islam May Get Its Moment on Earth - But the King of Kings, King of Israel, Son of David, Moves Only According to the WORD of the LORD in the Holy Bible [1208 words]M. ToveyOct 27, 2008 15:29139444
You didn't answer my question [61 words]NuraOct 30, 2008 00:33139444
What question?and it seems that Allah has no difficulty with the Trinity as defined by Chirstians [204 words]dhimmi no moreNov 1, 2008 08:47139444
Our dear Nura and more drivel [239 words]dhimmi no moreNov 2, 2008 08:40139444
Our dear Nura is agrees that allah is the greatest deciever and as if we did not know [73 words]dhimmi no moreNov 2, 2008 09:37139444
Our dear Nura you still did not answer my question and you think that I did not notice? [184 words]dhimmi no moreNov 2, 2008 09:43139444
Allah Help is always near! [3689 words]NuraNov 14, 2008 16:13139444
No Further Debate Necessary [285 words]M. ToveyNov 17, 2008 18:29139444
nura [90 words]btillyNov 24, 2008 12:14139444
What are you doing? [246 words]Razzak KhanDec 17, 2008 05:29139444
the trinity, Jesus, etcetera [80 words]JoshFeb 22, 2011 10:24139444
Just a Response [118 words]LoganNov 26, 2012 12:08139444
1Rahman is a Name, not an Attribute of Allah [174 words]AliDec 12, 2012 21:48139444
response to another lesson in context taj [127 words]majSep 11, 2015 21:54139444
Nura vs trinity [563 words]ShannonMay 10, 2017 10:32139444
Great Powers Using Smaller Nations As Pawns [504 words]STKOct 1, 2008 14:54139426
WWII appeasement [12 words]joe roseSep 30, 2008 04:59139362
The threat of an unpredictable nation [284 words]Khaled AlySep 29, 2008 21:43139341
Mr. King Never Asked… [1352 words]Amil ImaniSep 29, 2008 21:34139340
Please Send Your Comment to Larry King and Many Newspapers and TV News Outlets [81 words]Sofa SogoodOct 2, 2008 10:34139340
Sofa Sogood [29 words]Amil ImaniOct 3, 2008 15:07139340
From a proud Iranian Muslim [77 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 5, 2008 00:53139340
to Saeed Imani [71 words]ASOct 6, 2008 04:36139340
To Saeed [128 words]Amil ImaniOct 6, 2008 06:30139340
AS- Sorry, You are totally misguided [74 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 8, 2008 17:20139340
Amil Imani: You proved my speculation !! [43 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 8, 2008 17:24139340
Amil Imani- Even FOX announced Islam is on the RISE in USA [30 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 8, 2008 17:27139340
Give it up Saeed Khan [977 words]Amil ImaniOct 10, 2008 15:22139340
Islam is on the RISE in USA means 1000 + 1 = 1001 [851 words]The Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 10, 2008 21:44139340
Yet Christianity Is Growing Fast In The Global South [44 words]AnneMOct 12, 2008 16:00139340
Our dear Saeed who is another victim of Arabian imperialism [71 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2008 17:39139340
AnneM, Muslim growing population [162 words]InfidelOct 13, 2008 16:00139340
Amil: You are on the WRONG side of History [33 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 14, 2008 18:59139340
Our Dear dhimmi: You can't seperate Persians & Islam even with a Centrifuge [78 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 14, 2008 19:09139340
AnneM- Even your next President is a Muslim- Islam knocking on your doors [63 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 14, 2008 19:14139340
8Saeed, but Allah is a False God. Allah is not the almighty God that we humans believe in. You have been brainwashed by the mullahs [942 words]Amil ImaniOct 15, 2008 17:31139340
actually, Amil is on the RIGHT side of history [314 words]The Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 15, 2008 23:15139340
Infidel: What's hard for you to comprehend? [32 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 16, 2008 18:03139340
Amil: Use some Wisdom. [30 words]Saeed BakhtiarOct 16, 2008 18:06139340
Saeed, what's the matter with you, aren't you able to read what I said? [81 words]Amil ImaniOct 16, 2008 18:31139340
ideas CAN be defeated [412 words]The Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 16, 2008 21:21139340
How dare Amil question such authority! [220 words]The Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 16, 2008 21:29139340
Our dear Saeed and his Arab masters [107 words]dhimmi no moreOct 17, 2008 08:27139340
Prophecies that have become true [112 words]stsOct 17, 2008 15:38139340
1Real Persians have no like for the arabs or their culture [256 words]dhimmi no moreOct 18, 2008 08:13139340
Amil- You stay where ever you are, and Let me stay where ever I am.. [32 words]saeed bakhtiarOct 20, 2008 17:28139340
dhimmi: Why are you so stubborn? [42 words]saeed bakhtiarOct 20, 2008 17:34139340
Persians and Arabian imperialism [342 words]dhimmi no moreOct 21, 2008 07:27139340
Saeed Bakhtiar [13 words]IrandoostApr 6, 2009 18:04139340
True persians [37 words]grimjo bakhtiarOct 25, 2009 19:24139340
Appeasement [192 words]WayneSep 29, 2008 01:28139311
What Happens When a Desire for Peace At Any Price Meets an Insatiable Desire for World Conquest? [27 words]Sofa SogoodSep 30, 2008 12:44139311
Who are the "peace keepers"? [24 words]NuraNov 24, 2008 00:05139311
Appease Iran? [180 words]Fazal Habib CurmallySep 29, 2008 00:11139309
Appeasement and the Meaning of America Second, brought to us by Joe Biden in his own words [176 words]Sofa SogoodSep 28, 2008 15:11139293
Appeasement and Economic Pearl Harbor -- Russia Supplying Venezuela with Nukes -- Excuse me, Nuclear Cooperation. [973 words]Sofa SogoodSep 27, 2008 23:11139270
British were NOT appeasers it's just not true [50 words]HarveySep 27, 2008 15:30139261
Worse than Appeasement [74 words]JaySep 27, 2008 12:19139257
Not Appeasement [481 words]Douglas KohnSep 26, 2008 19:49139233
Apeasement is the force that allows evil to exist. [98 words]John F. SchmidleySep 26, 2008 14:20139213
Doing the Right Thing [213 words]Rebecca MouldsSep 26, 2008 12:31139210
Let's not forget the pirates of Barbary and how they ended [149 words]MannySep 26, 2008 12:20139209
Manny,who were the Barbary pirates? [3 words]InfidelSep 27, 2008 00:14139209
Containment. [352 words]LynnSep 26, 2008 12:06139207
who appease who [42 words]stsOct 17, 2008 15:53139207
1Hudna? [38 words]Ron KilmartinSep 26, 2008 02:00139193
Paul Kennedy's peaceful humans [61 words]UgriSep 26, 2008 01:38139191
Alas for Israel! [199 words]John W McGinleySep 25, 2008 17:50139179
by another name [41 words]cvtSep 25, 2008 16:26139176
the game played in between. [278 words]trans-parereSep 25, 2008 16:05139175
If It Were Only Iran That Needed to be Appeased [591 words]M. ToveySep 25, 2008 16:02139174
the politics of lying beautifully [66 words]G.VishvasSep 25, 2008 15:54139172
Excellent discourse on contemporary reality [34 words]Mike BakerSep 25, 2008 15:51139171
Fine theory but these little nasty facts... [816 words]IanusSep 25, 2008 15:49139170
1Why present strategies and Western Institutions are hopeless and helpless aganist Iran [374 words]Donald James Liveley BA, BS, MBASep 25, 2008 14:27139166
The West has lost faith in itself and it's ideals [434 words]Ken BesigSep 25, 2008 13:35139161
Appeasing Iran [80 words]JACQUES HADIDASep 25, 2008 12:56139157
An ongoing act of Appeasement? [761 words]Ron ThompsonSep 25, 2008 12:51139156
The problem with appeasement is it has never worked! [250 words]Margaret HoodSep 25, 2008 12:15139153
WWII Merchant Marine [151 words]Bryant HopkinsSep 25, 2008 12:10139152
Yes, Daniel Pipes is a secular prophet ! [146 words]Anne-Marie DelcambreSep 28, 2008 04:47139152
Show me da money! [28 words]Abu NudnikSep 25, 2008 10:43139148
President Bush is an appeasement president [305 words]Steve KleinSep 25, 2008 09:13139143
Why Bush is in an "appeasement mood". [79 words]Ben ZSep 25, 2008 09:00139141
Aggression? Retaliation? Anticipatory Defense? [163 words]GWKSep 25, 2008 07:14139135
Appeasement [494 words]Kyle GosnellSep 25, 2008 06:06139134
Appease Jihad? [100 words]Brian of LondonSep 25, 2008 04:36139132

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