Our dear Taj and sometimes it is better not to "elucidate"
Reader comment on item: Appease Iran?
in response to reader comment: to elucidate...

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Oct 12, 2008 at 17:31

Our dear Taj who is really desperate to be an Arab wrote

>sorry infidel but those are simply another example of listing verses sans any context in order to somehow construct the fear-mongering argument that Muslims are out to kill everyone not Muslim.Not only is the argument poorly made, reality itself belies the claim. There are over a billion Muslims on the planet - if such a belief were so ingrained as you asininely assert, the world would be in utter chaos.The reality is, the overwhelming majority of Muslims understand these verses in proper context and hardly conclude about their faith similarly to (your) islamophobic assertions...

Gobbledygook but wait: what is really Islamophobia? and what on earth is this topos of "context"?

For the readers: In our dear Taj's glorious madrassa he was told that if you are debating an infidle and he/she makes a good point then say: Oh you do not know the context and it is no more than a lame excuse that only delays the inevitable

>as a simple exercise, let's look at just one of the verses you cited, 3:28 - I mean, partly cited...It is rendered by Yusuf Ali as:

Oh Yusuf Ali another poor translation by a wannabe Arab but again in this case he indeed translates the rasm of the word AWLYA (and edited by the masorites and so much for the unedited Qur'an as: AWLiYaA' as: friends or helpers

>"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers"

In this case this is not a bad translation

>the arabic transliteration is:

So where did you "borrow" this poor transliteration from? And do you know what we call those that do not tell us about their source? let me help you: plagiarists so are you a plagiarist?

>La yattakhithi al-muminoonal (sic) kafireena

ROTFL Pakistani Arabic and like a real Pakistani you have no clue about where al al-ta3reef is supposed to go so let me coreect your "borrowed" transliteration and it is and let me help you (the short vowels are in lower case as your Allah had no clue that they even existed and the upper case is your Allah's little rasm):

1. LaA YaTtaKHiDHa and the last letter in the word is a dhal and not a theh as you claim. How come you did not know that?Notice that the lower case t is the missing teh which was edited by the masorites by adding a shadda above the teh and so much for Allah's poor Arabic spelling.

2. al-MuU'MiNuuNa and where is your missing hamza our dear taj? could it be because you have no clue about al al-ta3reef and you just added it at the end of the word before. Shame on you

> awliyaa:

Really? It is AWLiYA' there is a hamza at the end oh I forgot Pakistanis do not know very much about the lttter hamza but wait and neither did your Allah

> min doonal (sic) mumineena (sic)

ROTFL Pakistani Arabic and again you have no clue about al al-ta3reef I see. And why do you have an a at the end as there is no fatha? Oh let me see: ignorance?

MiN DuUni oh you forgot the kasra below the letter nuun and the last word is al-MuU'MiNuNa and you forgot the hamza again

Now you tell me why do you delve in a language that you cannot speak or read or write? And how do you feel if I start babbling in Urdu? Oh I know some Urdu as in Quran e Hakim and my favorite is hazrat (as in I will pass gas in Arabic) and oh I also like kofta. You see you need to stick to urdu

>Now if you read this with an eye of critical thinking, the question of why the arabic term "awliya" is translated as 2 words, "helpers" or "friends" arises... The easy answer here is that the term in arabic has more than one meaning.

And it does and in this case it means: helper and friend and for this see below

>Now, with just an iota of curiosity, one would investigate as to what the actual meaning of awliya is...It is an easy task, thanks to the internet. I would recommend starting with finding out just what is the common arabic word(s) used for "friend".

No you go and check a dictionary something that muslims, even those whose first language is arabic cannot use and cannot even read, but again you do not know any Arabic so what is the use.

For the readers the word awliya' is a very stable Arabic word and you will find it with the same meaning in classical, middle and modern Arabic and for this see HW page 1100A and see the root WLY and see Form III Verb (yufaa3il in present tense) and I quote: "to be a friend a helper, a supporter, a patron, a protector" So Yusuf Ali's the wannabe arab's translation in this case is good.

>Say you use an arabic-english online dictionary,

Bogus way to translate. And you can read an Arabic English Arabic dictionary? Are you for real? Or is this more fantasy?

>you will find that among the various terms listed, the word "wali" (singular of awliyaa) is not used.

You must pardon me but you are ignorant; as the word wali means: friend, protector, patron and the plural form awliya' has a hamza at the end

>You will also find that the words sadiq

The word sadeeq means friend and it is not a substitute for the word wali/awliya' How come you did not know that? and the word friend also means: sahib but the word awliya' in the Quran is a different word with a different meaning

Now if we turn to the term mu3ahadat al-wala' the proper translation would be the treaty of friendship

> and rafiq are commonly used instead.

Wrong. The word rafiq from the root RFQ means he who is kind and friendly and it does not mean friend, helper etc.. . For the readers see HW dictionary page: 351A and it is not a substitute to the word awliya' and not even close. How come you did not know that?

Now you tell us why do you pontificate about a language that you cannot read, write or speak?

>To the critical thinker, a new question arises - just what then does wali mean if it is not commonly used as "friend" by arab speakers...Here, I would recommend one actually be familiar with religious vocabulary, finding that the term wali is of signifigance to Muslims - in its common religious usage, the term refers to a saint or someone who exhibits extreme devotion to God.It also has a common usage pertaining to marriage, ie, it is the person who represents the bride in her side of the marriage contract. Oft times it is the father or brother. Clearly in this context a "wali" is not a "friend" but is a patron or agent or representative. Having a wali is a religious stipulation based on the statement of Muhammad - "There is no marriage without a wali" - if one transposes the word "friend" here, this statement is non-sensical...Now, understanding what wali/awliyaa means, the verse as a stand alone is one of understatement, especially when understood in the context that this advice was given to the fledgling Muslim community who had just suffered a series of treacherous attacks and raids facilitated by non-Muslim tribes who violated peace treaties they engaged with the Muslim community.

Islamic gobbledygook

>Lastly, if wali means "friends" and Muslims cannot take unbelievers or Jews/Christians as friends, how do you explain the permission to take them as spouses??? (lol)

And LOL to you too. Could it be becuase they have to convert first to the religion of the Arabs? So much for Muslim logic

>Now, that's deconstructing one of your cited verses - you can imagine how at length one can go regarding the other 13...

More islamic gobbledygook

Oh Allah's grammar's mistake for the day? how come there is a missing second teh letter in the word YTKHDH? It seems that Allah had no clue about double consonants! Oh and stick to urdu

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