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Submitted by Rand (United States), Jun 7, 2008 at 15:59
Dan Pipes' why's seem decent to me (not that I'm an overall fan of his positions in a general sense). I think if asked about a situation like this, the worse thing you can do is ignore it, because that says the statements are not significantly wrong enough to warrant a response.
I'm alright with McCain's reaction, even if it is a little posturing-y, because it does send a clear signal that you shouldn't say things like that. But I'm okay with Dan Pipes decision because while it side-steps the debate, it admits the statements are wrong, if not as loudly, and it confronts a fundamental reality of politics.
Politics is an ugly, ugly game, and I think it's naive and counterproductive to repudiate all the allies who you feel have repugnant views. I mean Obama hasn't repudiated the various semi-Commie groups endorsing him (especially if you look at the student groups campaigning for him). It's very rare for a single ideology to have enough overwhelming support among the population to allow for a pure coalition, so you must band with those you hate, sometimes those you really hate, sometimes those everyone should really hate (I use the word in the colloquial sense, on a more abstract level I believe that we should all love each other, however I use hate anyways since colloquially I think it can just stand for a strong dislike and demonstrate my actual hatred for those views). So banding with someone like Hagee, while uncomfortable (it would be intensely so for me, since I'm a Catholic), is something I can understand.
As for the remarks themselves... while those who know me might be a little outraged by this, it doesn't seem too far from the general tradition of looking at history as a DIRECT expression of God's will. Hence the genocidal Assyrian Empire becomes God's sword. I personally think that's much too limited a way to look at history, especially given the theological implications of free will, however, I do see it as valid.
Yet I still think Hagee was immensely wrong and justly chastised for saying the remarks. A view like that incorporating the Holocaust into such a theory of history shouldn't be said outside of a strictly academic and/or theological setting, because if they are said casually like this it gives the signal that we can look at Hitler and the Holocaust as just another chapter of history. And we can't do that.
Because if it's just another chapter, it's not an extraordinary outrage, and then it's something bad but maybe the results were worth it, and then with a good deal of logic twisting we get genocide is an option for national aims. It can never be such an option, and that is why there must be a firewall in popular culture around talking casually about the Holocaust like that, especially in a way that almost semi-compliments it. It's just like when people say "Well, Hitler did bring the German economy around," putting aside the fact that Hitler's economic policy was fundamentally flawed (it was overheating the German economy and may have been impossible to maintain without war), saying something like that might be valid in an academic historical/economic setting, but said in public, from a position of authority, a statement like that reduces the horror of the Holocaust, and makes it just a little easier for it to perhaps, maybe, someday happen again.
Least that's how I see it.
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.
| Title | By | Date |
| Interesting Observation of Hagee [88 words] | Larry Oakes | Oct 14, 2008 15:14 |
| Pastor Hagee Must Await Moses - not Jesus. Because.. [259 words] | IamJoseph | Aug 29, 2008 23:45 |
| ↔ Hey IamJoseph! [62 words] | Ahmad | Aug 31, 2008 00:46 |
| ↔ Jesus the greatest of all [295 words] | Dan | Sep 10, 2008 15:20 |
| John Hagee, The Holocaust and Me: Thinking about Allies [191 words] | Debbie Shafer | Jul 28, 2008 17:05 |
| Thank you Dr. Pipes [274 words] | There is NO Santa Claus | Jul 24, 2008 15:40 |
| john hagee supporting israel [53 words] | rachael | Jul 21, 2008 16:35 |
| I'll take "enemies" like John Hagee anyday over "friends" like B. Hussein Obama [42 words] | Joe Kaffir | Jul 13, 2008 21:12 |
| I regret only distance precludes me from being in the audience. I am Jewish. [14 words] | Alan | Jul 4, 2008 06:48 |
| ↔ taking a stand [24 words] | m.j.sisemore | Aug 23, 2008 17:00 |
| Evangelical anti-Judaism undermines support for Israel [w/response] [222 words] | ruben | Jun 26, 2008 14:40 |
| ↔ Thank you for your candor! [542 words] | Susan Browne | Jul 11, 2008 15:34 |
| Um... [172 words] | Robert Parker | Jun 11, 2008 13:38 |
| ↔ ok [57 words] | Lynn | Jun 14, 2008 10:32 |
| ↔ pertinent difference [163 words] | bos | Jun 16, 2008 06:19 |
| Pastor John Hagee is God's prophet to the Jewish people and the world [108 words] | Margaret Hood | Jun 11, 2008 09:56 |
| ↔ Hagee a prophet of Israel? I dont think so hunny [72 words] | Gabby | Jun 23, 2008 10:27 |
| ↔ Pastor Hagee is commended by many Jewish Rabbis for his love of the Jewish people [125 words] | Margaret Hood | Jun 24, 2008 09:05 |
| ⇒ Really, it's not whether you stand by him or not, but your why's [578 words] | Rand | Jun 7, 2008 15:59 |
| All Christians must support Israel, even with differences. 08 [114 words] | Phil Greend | Jun 6, 2008 21:22 |
| Hagee's ok by me, in fact more than ok [50 words] | UI | Jun 6, 2008 11:06 |
| Hagee: Speaks More Israeli than Israelis; Bigger Supporter of Israel than many left wing educated US Jewish people [39 words] | james burke | Jun 5, 2008 16:44 |
| Bravo. Spine. [51 words] | Charles Stewart | Jun 5, 2008 00:57 |
| Problem with Hagee's "support" of Israel [118 words] | Michael | Jun 4, 2008 14:15 |
| ↔ Michael, I have good news! [267 words] | Susan Browne | Jul 11, 2008 16:23 |
| How Great It Is that there Is a John Hagee and CUFI -- Caroline Glick also writes on the subject [156 words] | Sofa Sogood | Jun 4, 2008 00:54 |
| A letter of support for Dr. Pipes [284 words] | Ken Besig | Jun 3, 2008 12:36 |
| ↔ John Hagee and Allies [472 words] | Gabrielle Crofts | Jun 15, 2008 03:20 |
| "Common Cause" Issue [w/response] [321 words] | sammish | Jun 3, 2008 11:49 |
| Thank you Daniel Pipes. [14 words] | Cindy | Jun 2, 2008 03:03 |
| That's why I like Dr Pipes [57 words] | Amitabh Tripathi | Jun 1, 2008 06:38 |
| Daniel Pipes sees the big picture - [52 words] | jennifer solis | Jun 1, 2008 03:43 |
| Leonard Fein needs to go back to Jewish Day School [262 words] | Ken Besig | May 31, 2008 18:02 |
| ↔ well,.well, and my, my [249 words] | mz ravin black | Jun 1, 2008 13:10 |
| ↔ Ken, was wondering [171 words] | Ynnatchkah | Jun 10, 2008 04:54 |
| Journalists: Creating problems to sell solutions. [325 words] | Ynnatchkah | May 31, 2008 04:49 |
| Thank you [86 words] | Yelena | May 30, 2008 22:42 |
| CUFI and the Jewish people [28 words] | Kevin Fretz | May 30, 2008 17:38 |
| Pastor John Hagee and all who are United for Israel.... thank you [154 words] | Rochelle Michaels | May 30, 2008 17:01 |
| ↔ America must stand with Israel or be "Left behind" by a God who will curse those who don't. [144 words] | Margaret Hood | Jun 24, 2008 09:18 |
| Journalists, here to direct us [69 words] | Infidel | May 30, 2008 16:44 |
| ↔ Journalism's evil history [67 words] | Straight_Talk_Luigi | Jun 7, 2008 05:48 |
| Loyalty where needed [113 words] | Rebecca Moulds | May 30, 2008 14:59 |
| Hagee and Pipes [40 words] | Barry L Wolfe | May 30, 2008 09:24 |
| ↔ Let's Look At What People Do [427 words] | Jeff | Jun 3, 2008 15:46 |
| ↔ Bravo Jeff [157 words] | sara | Jun 3, 2008 17:41 |
| ↔ Political agreement, not principled agreement [123 words] | Gestell | Jun 8, 2008 20:41 |
| ↔ You Might Want To Do a Bit More Reading... [44 words] | Jeff | Jun 12, 2008 14:22 |